I haven't found a "magic place" (wish there was one) but I've got a theory. If you need to do any grocery shopping, do it after they've had a meal. Once or twice I've put the groceries down and right after they were put away, someone started clearing the dishes. Mind you, I just made the parents and son in one family put the groceries away, and then they all left the table set. Guess it depends on their moods or something. lol.