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#19914 - 04/06/06 04:44 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Sage
Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 2638
Loc: Island of Isola
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Quote:
Maybe Arthur should have two scoreboards. One for the cheaters and one for the real lovers of the game who find it fun to see how their doing against everyone else.
That would be cool, but not easily done, and I would rather Arthur focus (as I’m sure he would agree) on developing these games on other platforms. Possibly a feasible option, although it would still take more hours to do then feasible, would have a way to tell the software not to submit info to the board. This could be done by a click box indicated cheats were used. There really is not reason to have two boards though. What good would a cheat board be for? Quote:
I know it would be easy for Arthur to ban these user names from being able to upload their scores but for some reason he wont do it so lets expose them here.
Not so easy really. Yes it could be done but it would have to consistently be monitored and new parameters to the filter added daily. Very time consumeing.
Quote:
Arthur, a lot of kids use your games and is this the right way to go by showing them cheating is O.K.????? What should I tell my kids when they ask about the cheats Arthur???
I don’t believe Arthur has ever said cheating is O.K. In fact he has said several times he is against it. What I would tell your kids is, look people cheat. Just because others do it does not mean it is ok. It is like stealing music by downloading it illegal (kaaza, bigbear or any other file sharing program). Lots of people do it, but that does not make it right, as well as other examples. You can’t hide this stuff from them. It’s real life, and this would be a good example to show them how to rise above the situation.
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The VI
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#19915 - 04/06/06 07:12 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Maine
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I'm curious about two things. Where is this top 50 scorebooard? I've downloaded statistics but there doesn't seem to be any names - just rankings. And what defines cheating in this game? I know I have used some workarounds (spoilers) to enhance my enjoyment of the game that others might not find their cup of tea. (I work in the technology industry and it is fun for me to find how to make things work to my advantage.) However, I also don't need to compare how I play the game to how anyone else plays. I will certainly share my tips/spoilers with those who want to see them but I don't care what my rating is. Like I said, just curious what the definition of cheating is...
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#19916 - 04/06/06 07:25 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Unicorn
Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 17505
Loc: Colorado
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I think different people have different opinions about what's cheating and what's not. The phenomenon that's the subject of this discussion will be obvious when you examine the leaderboard. It can be accessed from LDW's Fish Tycoon for Windows page by clicking on the High Scores link, or just click here to go directly to it. 
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Barbara
Unicorn
Last Day of Work
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#19917 - 04/07/06 08:57 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Sage
Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 2638
Loc: Island of Isola
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As Barbra has pointed out peeps will differ on what a cheat it. In this case, I would imagine everyone would agree the people listed by jonty used a cheat. No but’s about it. There is no way to have those kinds of stats without changing the savegame file with a hex editor. There is another “cheat” that does not requiring editing the hex file, but has to do with moving the time forward. This too is defiantly called a cheat b/c you are changing something that is not “normal” for lack of a better term. Other people on this board would also tell you if you did not learn some the “secrets” of playing this game (as well as SV and PT) then you are cheating too. I suppose it would be because the joy of playing this game is figuring out what you need to do. If someone tells you, well then you did not figure it out. Personally I do not think the latter is cheating, but simply learning how to play the game. I’m sure there are others that would not agree. Bottom line, it is a personal decision. And as always, you will have to live with yourself knowing that you “beat” this game with some one else’s help.
Bottom line with respect to this thread is, the leader board is pretty much useless due to there being no way to determine who and who did not use a cheat to compile the numbers. Personally, I’ve been trying to get on the board for three weeks now using no cheats. All I have been doing is breeding, breeding, and breeding a certain yellow fish. So far I have only muster a little over $560,000. At this rate it will take another three weeks at least to break into the top 50.
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The VI
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#19918 - 04/09/06 06:29 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Trainee
Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 22
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Quote:
I'm curious about two things. Where is this top 50 scorebooard? I've downloaded statistics but there doesn't seem to be any names - just rankings. And what defines cheating in this game? I know I have used some workarounds (spoilers) to enhance my enjoyment of the game that others might not find their cup of tea. (I work in the technology industry and it is fun for me to find how to make things work to my advantage.) However, I also don't need to compare how I play the game to how anyone else plays. I will certainly share my tips/spoilers with those who want to see them but I don't care what my rating is. Like I said, just curious what the definition of cheating is...
You can find the scoreboard here:-
Code:
http://www.ldwsoftware.com/ft_win_scores/index.php
As for the definition of a cheat:-
Someone who dosn't play by the rules
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#19919 - 04/10/06 02:30 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 233
Loc: Baltimore
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When I began reading posts about cheaters, I thought uh-oh the little cheat I've been doing to age my fish is going to make people angry. Then I went to the leaderboard & saw some of those stats. LMAO! At least try to make it believable if for some reason you're compelled to do that!
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Yaelle
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#19921 - 04/11/06 11:45 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 04/07/06
Posts: 19
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Cheating??? I am doing good just to turn the thing on much less figuring out how to "Cheat". Although I am not a good person for keeping secrets.(I always peek at my christmas presents) So I did check out some of the spoilers for Fish Tycoon, and Village Sim. I think it is good to have some direction on where to go. Esp. for us inpatient people. So, to all those that gave spoils... I salute you. (Well, I would not go that far. I guess just a thank you would be sufficient.)
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SarahJanel
The grass may look greener on the other side but it still has to be mowed.
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#19922 - 04/11/06 12:13 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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Quote:
I still think a board that is based first on species discovered then other parameters would be a closer recognition of our efforts
I agree!  First ... have to find the seven magics. Second, find all 441 fish. Then third, money earned. Being on the board just for earning money isn't recognizing the true value of the game.
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#19923 - 04/13/06 05:20 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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For jonty's information, I played the game before I cheated, I played the game thoroughly and got the 7 fish. I only cheated, because I wanted to test out other functions of the game.
And since you are so reluctant to keep sending me messages and calling me a cheater, just so you know, there are only 2 people that have my saved 16 million file, myself, and an admin from here, no one else.
So if you seriously want to call me a cheater so be it, ill gladly post the saved game file everywhere, so your family, friends etc find it and cheat.
Decided I am tired of Jonty sending me abusive messages, Fish Tycoon cheat is now on the net, and people who have asked me, now have it.
Edited by jf3000 (04/13/06 07:31 AM)
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#19925 - 04/14/06 12:58 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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Its ok, heat is over. I apologise if I offended anyone.
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#19927 - 04/16/06 02:37 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Lead Designer
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 2729
Loc: San Francisco
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We are addressing the cheating issue as it relates to the leaderboards. It is a little tricky to fix because the best fix involves fixing the game code which is already out there, so right now we are focusing our attention on a better solution for subsequent releases (including the Mac release of Fish Tycoon, and Village Sim for Mac/PC).
In the mean time the best I can do is to tighten the filter that currently blocks people from uploading impossible scores. I'll give it another look today.
I manually deleted some of the top cheaters.
Edited by Arthur (04/16/06 02:40 PM)
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Arthur
Lead Designer
Last Day of Work
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#19928 - 04/19/06 12:17 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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The cheat for my credits doesnt affect the scores at all.
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#19930 - 04/24/06 10:49 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 2
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what is the freaking code
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#19931 - 04/24/06 10:50 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 2
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jf3000 please send the code to the following email adress michaelhsuil@yahoo.com
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#19932 - 04/25/06 04:06 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 240
Loc: Central CT
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#19934 - 04/25/06 12:23 PM
Re: plz can u send me the cheat for fish tyocoon
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Expert
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Mexico City, Mexico
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It is not a cheat, it is a dizzy saved game. A saved game with 16 million of money written on it. The reason is: if you see on some screenshots the version says 0.9xx BETA. Some beta versions start with full access to the game and no limitations for doing everything (say, if there is a bug if you have a medicine and buy another, instead of replacing it it erases it.) I think that's why the easy 16 million form. In the final releases of the game, that were corrected to start, instead, of 16 million, start only with $300.
Now: the people like jonty is angry because its completely impossible to make so much money in little time (the necesary used to start a game, start with 16 million). If you have full access to the game even if it was beta, why to continue uploading the stats?
That is what's wrong. It is not fault of Arthur.
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#19935 - 04/26/06 12:32 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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I have discovered the wonderfully silly world of the Leaderboard .. and how it works. I didn't think I'd get caught up in trying to get on it ........but off I went earning pilies and piles of money!
The Leaderboard is so much more accurate than it used to be, and at least it IS obtainable now! If thing keep going the way they are ... I may make it to it yet, though you really have to swim upstream, as the numbers go up continually!!!!!!!
I just wish we could change game names, so we could see who everyone really is on the Leaderboard. I know I had to start a new game got have one with Gramma Bobbie on it ... after having sooooooooooooo many games that already had tons of money.
Anyway .. I just added a blurb to my blog (that's a blog blurb ... kinda sounds fishie, huh) and am tracking my progress now.
As I said with I first found this game and board. I'm way to old to be having this much fun with a game!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!
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#19936 - 04/29/06 04:43 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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I have now placed my cheat saved game on the net, and there is now 4 places to get it, admin, me, a cheat site, or my domain.
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#19937 - 04/29/06 11:49 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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Quote:
I have now placed my cheat saved game on the net, and there is now 4 places to get it, admin, me, a cheat site, or my domain.
 Really nice folks make a really nice game and other folks have a really great time playing it ... Then someone has to stick a pin in it just because they 'can'.
The extra money 'does' influence the stats by making it easier to earn money from the start of the game, and have an upper hand over those who start from scratch.
Maybe not a big deal ... but I think it means alot to some of us, and just isn't 'The Fishie Way'!
 
Just my opinion
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#19938 - 04/30/06 06:48 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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get over it, geesshh cheats arent the end of the world.
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#19939 - 04/30/06 02:53 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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Quote:
get over it, geesshh cheats arent the end of the world.
Nothing to get over. It's just my opinion, as is yours.
The freedom I have to post my opinion is the same one you have to post your cheats.
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#19940 - 05/04/06 02:26 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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Hence why the cheat is now so populated all over the net that anyone can use it, including those tools I found that manipulates the leaderboard.
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#19941 - 05/04/06 05:30 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
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why would they need to get a saved game file from you when it poses the risk of a potential virus? As a word of advise to people out there my sister downloaded one of these files off the net and it was a virus so use caution.
Also why make it a saved game file when all they would need to do is use a hex editor and edit one line of code for all the money they would need?
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Abash, The devil stood and tasted how aweful goodness was...
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#19942 - 05/04/06 06:22 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Lead Designer
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 2729
Loc: San Francisco
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There is no way to make a perfectly secure savegame file, nor a leaderboard that cannot be exploited or spoofed. If Blizzard cannot prevent cheating, with all their efforts and millions of dollars, it is not realistic to think that an indie studio like LDW will be able to do it.
That being said we can discourage cheating or hacking, limit its effectiveness and take other 'bang-for-your-buck' measures. We are trying to mostly learn from what went wrong with Fish Tycoon's leaderboard (our first attempt!) and fix and improve as much as possible in subsequent releases.
<EDIT>
I just changed the leaderboard to be sorted by Fish Found, with ties broken by Money Earned. At first glance it looks pretty cheater-free. Thoughts?
Edited by Arthur (05/04/06 06:39 PM)
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Arthur
Lead Designer
Last Day of Work
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#19943 - 05/04/06 06:49 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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I LIKE IT, Arthur!!!!!!!!!!!! No ........ I LOVE IT! ...... Because I'm higher now?? ... Well, that too, But ....... it does seem to make more sense this way. The game is a game of finding and breeding fish. Finding ALL the Magic and all the Species makes total sense before going for the repetitive money thing. I'm so glad you were able to sort this way! Of course now I'm back to the repetitive money thing. THANKS
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#19944 - 05/04/06 06:53 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Lead Designer
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 2729
Loc: San Francisco
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Oh, it was Barbara's idea, of course. Had to mention that.
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Arthur
Lead Designer
Last Day of Work
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#19945 - 05/04/06 07:02 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Consigliere
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 207
Loc: NW Indiana
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Quote:
Oh, it was Barbara's idea, of course. Had to mention that.
Way to go Barbara!!!
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#19946 - 05/04/06 07:31 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
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Yes you are right it is very hard to stop exploiters, but comparing blizzard to LDW is a bit different being that 90% of blizzards game access a game server. It is a bit easy to detect them since it directly affects the data stream and it can be found pretty easy.
As for the save file, it saves as a pts. save file, now if im not mistaken that would be a file from Infinity Engine Game Tileset?
If it is let me know I can pm you a few ways on how to eliminate them hex editing the pts file.
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Abash, The devil stood and tasted how aweful goodness was...
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#19947 - 05/04/06 09:24 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Trainee
Registered: 04/30/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Northeast PA
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I happened to see this post and this question is semi-off topic, but, do scores from players that have the Real Arcade version of this game show up here or is there a separate scoreboard somewhere?
Edited by AnthonyK (05/04/06 10:10 PM)
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#19950 - 05/05/06 10:24 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 7
Loc: New Jersey
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Why would he not be allowed to discuss mods to the game, if you look in the guide on this site it actually seems to welcome it.
Created a Mod (game modification) that you would like hosted at this site? Submit it by email here.
I do not agree with some of the cheats people use but them discussing it doesnt seem like they are breaking any T.O.S.
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Abash, The devil stood and tasted how aweful goodness was...
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#19951 - 05/05/06 01:12 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Legend
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 1365
Loc: In The Cave...Watching You
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just create a mods/cheats topic and move all talk of such things to that one, i mean if people dont want to look at it, they simply wont. I personally dont get any gratification from cheating, but some people just dont see it that way. Just an idea.
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Village Monk
"There's no place like 127.0.0.1"
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#19952 - 05/05/06 01:34 PM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Lead Designer
Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 2729
Loc: San Francisco
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Sneakers,
In general developers do want to be able to encourage mods--not hacks, but mods. The Fish Tracker program, for example, is amazing and this is community interest and support in the game that we are very grateful for.
Our village simulator will be even more open to modding, but we will take modest steps to reduce cheating and hacking.
Regarding banning people, so far everyone has been reasonably polite, even if they are disagreeing strongly. If it gets nasty Barbara might lock this thread, but I don't see a reason to ban anyone.
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Arthur
Lead Designer
Last Day of Work
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#19953 - 05/06/06 04:05 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Newbie
Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
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Hey CaraBeans22, if you have something to say say it to me. If you have a problem with cheating get over it, its life. I played the game before I cheated, I enjoyed playing the game. I cheated afterwards so I could see if I could make any difference to the game. Simple.
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#19954 - 05/06/06 10:59 AM
Re: Top Cheaters of Fish Tycoon
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Unicorn
Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 17505
Loc: Colorado
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Hmmm....I can see where this discussion might be headed, so it's time for the last word in this thread. I know that jf3000 has taken a lot of heat in the last month from some of the more outspoken members of the forum (including, it seems, some ugly PMs), and I don't condone that kind of personal attack. As Arthur said, a few posts notwithstanding, the discussions have been relatively polite. However, this isn't the place to have even polite "wars" about cheating.
There are many, many places on the 'net where people encourage cheating and actively share ways to cheat. This isn't one of them. We don't "ban" all discussions about cheats, or the people who promote them, but we certainly don't encourage them. LDW's games are the kinds of games that attract people of all sorts. And they all have different opinions about "cheating" - not only what constitutes cheating, but on whether or not it's right or wrong to cheat.
Regardless of which side of the "cheating coin" you fall on, let's keep the discussions here focused on the games, and not on each other's philosophies and behaviors. Don't make me exercise my magical powers!
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Barbara
Unicorn
Last Day of Work
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