I wrote about this in another thread, but it was a bit confusing trying to describe without the use of any pictures. I've decided this would be better put in its own thread instead of buried inside another long thread.

I have tried to figure out how know which parents would produce which children, and I think I've figured it out. It is a simple mathematical average of the parents when assigning each "head" a number.

I began charting which children resulted from which parents as my villagers had babies. To help me keep track, I assigned a number to each "head" from the male_heads.png and female_heads.png that came with the game. There are 30 heads for each so the numbers simply go from 1 to 30.

The first two pictures show how each villager is numbered. So now each villager is assigned a number so the family trees can be represented by numbers.

The last picture is of the chart I created. It shows the family trees of each child and its parents. The parents are listed with their corresponding numbers. Each boy and girl child is also listed with their number.

That's when I noticed that the children were almost always close to the average of the numbers for the mother and father.

For example: If a father's number is 12 and the mother's number is 18, their average would be 15.
12 + 18 = 30.
30 / 2 = 15.
The average of parents 12 and 18 is 15.

These parents will most likely have a child #15 (boy or girl). The children can be off the average by a point or two, so the parents may also produce child #14 or #16, or even #13 or #17. Every now and then when the parents' numbers are far apart, the resulting child could be as much as 3 points off the average.

So if the average number from the parents is 15, you will get children:
13-14-15-16-17
With 15 in the middle being most common and 13/17 being less common.

If the parents' numbers are close together, such as 15 and 16, they may produce children:
13-14-15-16-17-18
So 15 and 16 are most common, but you can get a child numbered 13, 14, 17, or 18. The further you go from the middle (the average), the less likely the chances are you'll get that child, but it's not impossible.

Many people, myself included, lose most of their black and blonde haired villagers and end up with mostly brown and red. If you look at the "head" pictures, you'll notice that black and blonde are the two ends with brown and red in the middle. Given that the children are the average their parents, this explains why so many of us end up with mostly brown and red haired villagers since they're more likely to be the average of the two parents.

There are some exceptions to this rule which I haven't figured out if it's another pattern or just a infrequent random child being produced in order to bring into the game a few children that are different. I've noted these exceptions by showing their numbers in gray boxes. You can see how the resulting child is not at all close to the average of the two parents. The more exceptions I get, the more I can try to see if they're caused by anything specific, such as maybe anytime you put certain parents together (maybe those parents produce random children?). I've considered other hypothesis, but I don't have enough examples to figure out if any could be true.

For now, using the average of the parents very closely predicts which child they will produce. I hope this helps answer the question of the genetics between the parents and children. Using this helps give us some way of figuring out how to get (or avoid) a certain child when mating parents together.

This shows how I numbered each villager:



And this shows the chart I am using to track the parents and children. Notice that each parent and resulting child is numbered. At the far right of the chart is the average of the parents (using their numbers). You can see how close the children are to the average of the parents. This is how you can figure out the genetics in the game.



Please let me know if this makes sense to you all. If not, let me know, and I'll try to help explain whatever part is confusing.

Wow thats a lot of work. Good show. I was curious to the villagers heads. I've never had a #1 woman nor #3,4,5,30 men at all in any of the 5 villages on my game. (Only recently got 1 of #2 and 7 women)

(Wants the different men!)

Looks to check numbers




10 + 11= 21/2=10.5? 28+19=47/2=23.5?

Is this correct?

PS: Both these little girls were a surprise with their looks considering their parents!

Yes, your calculations are correct. Both of these are examples of the children that appear to be randomly chosen and do not reflect the average of their parents at all. I've added this to my list, hoping I can eventually figure out if there's a pattern to these exceptions or if they're truly random.

I also thank you for posting their pictures. I add anything that I can confirm with a picture to my list. I have to actually see the parent and children to be certain the correct numbers are being used. That way I know the exception indeed did happen and it's not just an accidental error of some kind. The more of these exceptions I can find, the more likely I have a chance to figure out what causes them (if they aren't random).

Do you have other children that do fit into the "average of the parents" pattern? I'd like to also confirm that others are getting the same pattern between their parent/child combinations.

I don't know if they are completely random; it could be a grandparent.

this is so helpful. the math is confusing but i got everything when i saw the charts. The charts a re helpful, thanks.

Wow I second what Wisegal said thanks 4 posting

thanks alot for those breeding charts and explanations for VV! what a lot of work! i never knew there were so many different villagers available!

do you have a total count for how many combos there are?? am i understanding there there are 900 available?????

Hee! I thought of that and if they were from a large tribe then definitely. I have seen the grandparent effect but these 2 little girls are from a tribe of 26 with 4 dead. I started putting the father and mothers names for a last name to keep up with who was who. But that doesnt mean that their grandparents on the other side of Isola didn't pass on genes

ATTEEENTTIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have discovered a genetic breakthrough about the noises of the villagers! The noise that the MOM makes will be in the noise family that the child makes. Lets say there was a mom that said "whew". She had kids and they all said "he he hee". The ones that were girls all said "whew" when they grew up. The ones that were boys all said a peaceful sounding "hey" when they grew up.

I seriously doubt it just on a programming point of view. That would require that the software maintain a database of the grandparents for each and every villager (once your tribe gets beyond its first round of villagers). Given that it's possible to have as many as 115 villagers at a time, that's a lot of data that has to be maintained.

I'm not saying it's not possible or the reason for the odd children, but it just doesn't strike me as being something important enough in the game to merit a full database of genetics.

Instead, I think the software merely takes the average of the parents at the time in which they breed. They do maintain the genetics until the child is 18, but they drop it after that.

The more examples of these "odd" kids that turn up, the better chance I have of finding any kind of pattern. Could it be 1 in every 10 births? Or the time of day or night in which the child is born (if born at <hour>:15, then it'll be a random child which results in a 1 in 60 ratio due to there being 60 minutes each hour)? Maybe there's a basic calculation of the general tribe, and when it's found to be too far out of balance (or too balanced with all villagers' numbers being rather close to each other), then a "new" kid is mixed in? I doubt any of these are the case, but it's important to consider various possibilities.

I just think however it's done, it's done at the time the child is selected (when they turn 2 and we can finally see the child), and it's done using some kind of mathematical equation.

Yes, the sounds are always inherited from the mom. I didn't know that orignally so my oldest tribe only has hehehe and hahaha. A newer tribe has six different kids with sounds thanks to a barrel of babies all girls. (Makes chart to keep sounds going which means each woman has to have one girl child. Sounds easy but I had to go through 5 boys before I got a girl on one)

how long did it take you ?? i have been doing this in 'my head" for over a year . i have certain villagers that are
my favs . so i always try to make them

Are you asking how long did it take me to figure it out or to start getting the villagers I want?

Regardless, I'm happy to say that I now have 4 very blonde children running around. The only problem is that they're all female and the last male blonde is 72 years old. I let him breed one last time with 3 females which I'm using to get the blonde children so I'm hoping for at least 1 male in the bunch.

I'm just so happy to get my blondes back, especially the girl with long blonde hair. She's my favorite. I now have 3 of them!

Awesome! Thx!

(By the way, does this also work for VV1? I hope so!)

No. In VV1, the heads are completely random.

wow that looks like a lot of work! good job! this is a very interesting topic

Well, Vicki, I've done some equations for some of my children (my tribe has had 57 babies as of this moment, so it's only a small percentage of them). Anyways, their averages all fell within their parents' expected averages, but I will post the pics of some of them anyways. One of them I am having trouble figuring out. I can't figure whether his dad is a six or a sixteen, so I'll post his pic first.


Next, here are some of the other children I did equations for.


9+7=16/2=8 real #7


7+13=20/2=10 real #10


9+19=28/2=14 real #15


9+19=28/2=14 real #15


9+7=16/2=8 real #7


8+12=20/2=10 real #10


7+13=20/2=10 real #10

The dad in this picture is a 6. So that would make it 6+9=15, 15/2=7.5, real child=8. So that also falls within the average of the parents.

I double checked all your other ones and agreed with what you came up with. I've added them all to my list. Thanks for supplying the pictures so I could be certain my list is as accurate as I know how to make it.

With all the proof I have so far, I believe I did figure out how the children are determined. Almost all of them are the average of the parents, give or take a couple of points. I'm not finding very many exceptions so I can't get a hold on why that happens, but I do have a tribe that's quickly becoming dark haired (the tribe I named Vicki's Blondes! LOL! :D) so maybe that will trigger an exception baby? I'm hoping so because I really don't want that tribe to be completely void of blonde haired villagers!

Wow I like this thanks for posting. It looks like a lot of work right on

okay i'm confused. i have #9 & #12. what would the child look like?

A 9 and 12 would average a 10 or 11 child. You may get another 9 or a 12, but it'll most likely be a 10 or 11.

9 + 12 = 21

21 / 2 = 10.5

Therefore, the average is equally split between 10 and 11, making either child equally as possible. But if I were to make a guess on which one you'll get, I'd go for the 11. It seems the higher number is more prevalent than the lower.

thank you!

it worked i had a #12

If the numbers of the parents are wayyy different, does this still apply?

This is really a great help. Thank You!

My tribe is still very young and only ten children have been born yet. I only had one exception until now. I will list them and maybe it will help to figure out how the exceptions occur.

(m=male; f=female)

m8 + f2 = f5 (average: 5)
m8 + f2 = f4 (av: 5)
m12 + f24 = f19 (av: 18)
m25 + f5 = m9 (av: 15)
m12 + f24 = m17 (av: 18)
m23 + f4 = f14 (av: 13,5)
m12 + f5 = m7 (av: 8,5)
m25 + f4 = m14 (av: 14,5)
m9 + f19 = f14 (av: 14)
m25 + f14 = m18 (av: 19,5)

Congratulations on your new #12, Erica.


Krystal, so far it seems to apply. I've had a 9+22 (average 15.5) give me a #17 child. A 10+22 (average 16) gave me two #16 children. And a 10+23 (average 16.5) gave me a #15 boy, a #15 girl, and a #17 girl.

I'd love to see other examples of even a wider gap between the parents. A 1+30 would be interesting to see!

This is why I believe most tribes will tend to have more brown and red heads as it matures because (almost) every couple will give a child of their average with the middle numbers being more often the average than the lower or higher numbers. To keep (or bring back) the lower and higher numbers, you have to maintain careful breeding to ensure only the lower parents breed to get lower numbered children (black hair) and higher number parents breed to get higher number children (blondes). If you mix any of them up, you'll get the middle numbered children (brown/red hair).

I've recently had an interesting experience of a child with NO parents listed! I'm sure he came from a couple of my villagers, but his voice is different from the others and all through his childhood (2-17), he did not show parents behind him when checking the details page on him. His hair color fits the villagers I have, but he seems to have come from thin air. Maybe a glitch in the software to prevent his parents from showing? Strange whatever happened. I'm just disappointed that he has black hair when I'm trying so hard to get blondes in that tribe.

Dio, welcome to the board! Can you post a picture of this child with its parents from the detail page. I'd like to include this in my list, but I have to see the actual picture to include it. Thanks!

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I have an 18+30... Can't wait to see what the child looks like!
He may have come from an event... I've noted this happening when new children come into my tribes from events.

Thank You, Complexity!
I would really like to do that, but unfortunately he is grown up and fathered children of his own already.
I will take pictures of my next exceptional children.

Male 26 mated with Female 21 and gave birth to female 22,male 22,male 24 and female 23.

I am LOVING this!!! My tribe has only two blondes and three redheads. Today, I put the following couples indoors with hopes of increasing variety in my village.

19+19=38/2=19
24+19=43/2=21.5
13+24=37/2=18.5

The second couple has already had a son, and he is a 20!

I wish I could get a 2, 3, 4, 5 and a 30 guy since ive never had any

Dio, looking forward to any pics of exceptional children (I think that's a good name for them!).

Cole, your couple is having children directly within the average. Cool to be able to predict what kids each couple will have!

SP, thank you for the pic! This was my first 24m, 19f AND 20m I've added to my list. That's a very nice addition!

shemee, the best way I can suggest that you get any of the numbers you're wanting is to breed the parents closest to those numbers. Since it's possible to get a child a point or two lower/higher than the parents, you can work your way up or down through the generations. So, for example, to get a 30, I'd breed the highest number male with the highest number female that you have. Keep breeding them as much as you can until you finally get a male and/or female with an even higher number than the original parents. Then breed those children once they're old enough (even if that means breeding a mom or dad to a child; it's a game after all). As you continue doing this, you can inch your way up or down until you finally get the number(s) you're wanting. It will take patience and diligence to do this, but it is possible now that we know their genetics.

Krystal, my parentless 9m must have come from either an event or another planet, take your pick. Not only did he arrive without any parents, but he took it upon himself to breed with every female I had even though he was never set to Parenting skill and had never been breed before! Now I have LOTS of dark haired children in my "Vicki's Blondes" tribe. I'm not sure how he appeared through an event without me knowing it, but he is most certainly different than the rest of the villagers. Too bad I didn't get a blonde male instead of a dark haired one. I wouldn't mind having a rouge blonde male breeding his little digital heart out!

I've been following this thread for almost a week now. I found it when I was looking for tips on how to try to make a 19F as I wasn't having any luck. Sadly, the one female I had to attempt it was too old by the time I found this thread. That just gave me an excuse to start a second tribe though. Anyway, here are some additions for your research.

First Tribe:



3 M + 19 F = 21 F
No grandparents. This couple also produced a 6 F, but I didn't get a screenshot.



30 M + 27 F = 10 F

30M no parents -- 27 F parents 30 M + *23 F/Grandparents 30 M + 19 F=*



12 M + 27 F = 4 M (Same 27 F as above.)

12 M parents 5 M + 17 F -- 27 F parents - see above
--------------
Second Tribe



2 M + 13 F = 21 F

No grandparents



9 M + 29 F = 2 M

9M parents 2M + 19 F --29 F no parents
------------

I added grandparent info just incase. I hope this helps you figure it out!

Wow, Starhawk! Those are incredible exceptions! I've made a special notation on these in my list.

Just to be sure... you're posting only the exceptions and not all of the children, right? Approximately how many other children have you had that are not exceptional?

I'll be honest, these are so far off the mark, I even tried to see if they were Photoshopped, but I can see no evidence of it. Nothing personal, please be assured. I just have to be as certain as I can that I'm keeping my database clean and pure, and these exceptions are so incredible, I couldn't believe it without double checking!

I'm very interested in the tribe(s) in which these exceptions came from. You have been fortunate enough to have villagers at both extremes (very low and very high numbers). But it's even more fortunate that you have had so many exceptions! I'd like to know how old the tribe(s) are, how many babies, how many villagers in total are in the tribe(s) themselves, what hair colors do most of the other villagers in the tribe(s) have, and did you do any special breeding to get the low or high number villagers?

I'd like to know how these exceptional children came to be. This is precisely what so many people would love to know how to do — to get a child that is vastly different from the parents so they can bring back certain villagers that they haven't seen in a very long time (if ever).

Thank you so much for posting the pictures. I hope to hear more about their tribes. I'd love to figure out if there is some kind of mathematical equation that creates these children that we can reproduce or if it's truly just random which is completely out of our control.

I'd also love it if anyone happens to have the same exceptional child from the same parents that have been posted already. I am able to find duplicates of the normal children (average of the parents), but the exceptional children are so few that I have yet to find a duplication of them. If anyone ever happens to have a duplicate, I would dearly love to know it.

As a side note: I have to laugh at knowing that while I'm doing all of this to somewhat reverse engineer how the software is designed to create the children, those who wrote the software are watching me hypothesize while they know the true answer. it must be funny for them to watch me scramble to figure out how they coded the game! For me, figuring out the code (logic) is just one extra layer of enjoying the game.

One of the most fun parts of the game for me is the breeding. Eventually I know I'll run out of "baby room", but it hasn't happened yet. This all started because I wanted little girls with curly red hair (#19) like one of the original kids I had in my first game. I thought she was so cute!

As I stated in my first post above, I was having difficulties making my #19 girls so I came here and thanks to your info I was able to make my attempts with a higher chance of success. I have kept a notebook and I have a couple of documents that I use to keep track of birth order(age) and head numbers.

I have NOT been able to get a #19 girl in my first tribe, however I was able to in my second, but ONLY ONE! In my attempts, I also decided I liked the #6 girl (she looks like Princess Leia!), and the girls with the long hair, especially the 29 F. My MAJOR attempts have been to get..Firstly blonde children, then #19 girls, #29, #6, #7, #26, #24, #22, #16, #15, #12. I know I discriminate; I only want the boys for their numbers LOL
-----------
There is some background, as to your question.

"Approximately how many other children have you had that are not exceptional?"

In my first tribe, the first thing that happened was I got the "wild boy" event, so I actually started with 8 people. They have all died now and the population is 60 people. I started with...3 M, 5 M, 8 M, TWO 30 M, 17 F, 19 F, 30 F. I found your post right after the 30 F turned 50. Three exceptions out of 60, four if you count the #6 I got, although she is only 5 points off the avg.

In my second tribe, no one has died yet. The population is 59, so 52 babies. I started this tribe with, 2 M, 7 M, 11 M, 15 M, 13 F, 19 F, 29 F. Two exceptions out of 52.

Both tribes have nursing mothers so I don't know about these babies yet. I have played over 100 hours on each of these tribes.

I've only had two "accidents" in my first tribe of "illegal" breeding LOL Neither of those babies was anything special. I breed them all on purpose and with intent to create the villagers I like.

The game however seems to want to thwart me. I'm having a very hard time with 9's. It also seems like it wants to keep some of them rare, of course I could be nuts LOL, but for example:

I have bred the 13 F (original villager in 2nd tribe) with the
2 M (also original villager)- 11 times - Average is 7.5. This was in the hopes of getting a 6 F & 7 F. The first 4 babies were all boys.. a 6, two 7's and an 8. The next baby (you can see her picture above) was the 21 F. The next 5 babies were all male two 6's and three 7's. She was 48 years old at this point and I thought ok one last time and finally she had a 6 F as her 11th child. I did actually get another 6 F as well as, a 7 F with a 10 F mother and the same 2M father. The 10 F mother did have 5 previous children, three 6 males and two 5 females.

By the way, the exceptionals I posted of the 27 F mother, the first time I was going for a 19 and the second time for a 29. She does not want to give me any "9"'s.

In both tribes I have kept the redheads to a minimum, and the ones I have are mostly in the range I want. I have 13 redheads in the 1st tribe and 12 in the 2nd. I count head #'s 16 thru 20 as redheads.

If you want a breakdown by hair color, I can do that. Looking at the pictures you posted I see:

1 - 9 Black Hair
10 - 15 Dark Brown Hair
16 - 20 Red Hair
21 - 22 Light Brown Hair
23 - 30 Blonde Hair

or simplified:

1 - 15 Brunette
16 - 20 Redhead
21 - 30 Blonde

Sadly I do not have a spreadsheet at this time, so I've been listing them in a text document. I hope this info helps!

Star, that's very helpful! It gives me some idea of how prevalent the exceptional children are. 3(or4)/59 and 2/52. So around every 20 - 25 babies as a loose guess. It may also be more prevalent when breeding a Master Parent as compared to a first time breeder or Trainee Parent. I know the software does change the outcomes of the villagers actions based on their skill status so part of the equation may have to do with the parents being Master Parents or not.

I'm so glad you've kept your genetic tree for your tribes! I got into this pretty much the same way as you, but with a twist. When I first began playing, there were certain villagers I simply thought were ugly so I altered them. Some of them I simply made changes to their face and/or hair. But some of them I completely replaced with a duplicate of my favorite villagers. Obviously, that really messed up the genetics. Here I was, thinking I had all these pretty villagers, but not really. When I decided to put the game back to the way it was originally written, all my pretty villagers were GONE and I was left with a bunch of brown and red heads! Even worse, all of my blonde women were gone! I only had 2 blonde males left, and they were getting a bit old.

So that's when I began charting my villagers. I started keeping a spreadsheet on the parents and their children. I needed to have an identifier for each villager so numbering them seemed to be the most logical idea. And that's when it popped out at me. The children were the average of the parents, give or take 1-2 points. That explained why every villager gravitated towards the middle #15/#16 which are the brown and red heads.

I frantically wanted to get a blonde back! My favorite is the long blonde haired female, followed by the same female with slightly darker hair. I had lost every one of them. So I began finding the highest number male and female to breed. Anytime I got a child with an even higher number, I'd use that one as my new breeder once they turned 18. Slowly, I managed to get my blondes back! I got up to a 25, 26 and 27 female children with my original breeder pregnant again, hoping for a boy. If she has a girl and her current partner dies of old age (he's a #28), I have a good 20 years left on another partner that's a 27.

Once I got that far along, I decided to play with a second tribe. I paused the first tribe and started a new tribe which I named, "Vicki's Blondes". Only one problem. Not a single blonde in the original 7! In fact, most of the villagers are very dark haired! Ugh! I have no choice but to breed them as I needed to get the village established. And then I made a mistake. I allowed a #9 to ring the Gong. The Gong granted him wisdom. It was the first time it had granted wisdom so I didn't know what to look for. Then, that night, my #9 male breed with all of the females! Turns out, the Gong made him a Master Parent. It's not easy to get a tribe of blondes with a breeding-crazed #9 running around!

I've managed to stop him from breeding as much as he used to; although, he's still managed to get a couple more females pregnant. And then I've had two couples breed accidentally when I dropped one of them on top of the other, not meaning to (such as putting one on a hut to fix).

I've finally finished all the puzzles, got all my skill levels and have 30 or so Esteemed Elders. Only the first villager didn't make it to Esteemed Elder. All the rest have. That's a secondary goal of mine. All I have left are 3 bugs to collect, but with only 38 villagers (now 41 thanks to expectant twins and a singleton just bred). So I have lots of chances to breed any parents I want. The only problem is I really have very few parents I will even attempt to breed. My highest numbered parents in that tribe are #18s (a male and female). I'm breeding those two as fast as possible, but with just one couple and two "Isola years" for each child, it's going to take some time. My first child came out as a #18 female. I have a long way to go to get my beloved #26f.

I noticed you mentioned some issues with #9s. I have found some curious things with #9s, males only I think. It just seems they are different somehow. My rouge Master Parent #9 arrived unannounced (that I know of) and without any parents. He just ended up as a child in the tribe. I didn't really pay much attention to him until I realized he didn't have any parents showing even though he was under 18 and not one of the original 7. I've also ran into more exceptional children with #9s involved than any other number. It may be just a coincidence, but I'm not completely sure. So you got my attention when you mentioned issues with your #9.

I'm still not able to find a solid pattern to determining the exceptional children. They seem to be all over the board and not organized. But maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle. Maybe if I organized it around the children's numbers instead of the parents', a pattern may emerge. Since this is all in a spreadsheet, I just keep adding different possible equations for all of the exceptional children in hopes that I'll stumble onto a pattern. However, there may be other things at play that I cannot possibly account for, such as if the game takes into consideration whether the tribe is too homogeneous and needs a new villager to stir up the genetics.

Hey guys, interesting stuff, but this topic should really have a Spoiler tag on it.

I tried. There's not enough room in the title space for a spoiler tag. But I think the topic title makes it clear that it'll be a spoiler.

If a mod or LDW person disagrees, they are welcome to change the title... as if they need my permission.

I got a 9F via M10 and F18.10 plus 18 divided by 2 whould be 12.5, so i Shold have gotten a 12 of either gender.If I would have removed the 1 from 18 and then do 10 + 8 diveded by 2, the result should have been 9F or 9M.

Sorry if that doesnt make ANY sense AT ALL.

Complexity:

There very well may be something in the game to "stir things up" as you say. Last night I had an illicit breeding between 1 male I had only bred once (8m) and a semi-retired female 10 f. They had not been together before nor were they working in the same area, neither one were even adept parents. What's very strange is I have 2 female master parents both of whom are working in his area (both over 50). I ended up with a 10m so nothing special with the child.

Have you noticed various actions between the villagers, like arguing, complaining and teaching? I'm starting to think that not only is there an "intelligence" rating (some villagers are just hopeless learning anything), but also some sort of "status" rating for each villager. For example, Britney's post above...suppose her 10M didn't have enough "status" so his number wasn't used? 18/2=9 she could have had a female child with just herself? Just a thought there.

I've also oopsied a couple of times and dropped a villager on another and they had a baby right there at the research table. That's when I discovered they don't need to actually go inside the "Lovely Hut" to have a baby. I was quite irritated about that.

I don't think having a skill at master has anything to do with the selection of the child. In my 2nd tribe my 2M came with running. He was an esteemed elder at 46. He has fathered 23 of my 57 children so far. Those mothers that were mastered in a skill had a higher chance of a baby born with some skill in the one they were mastered in since he was mastered in Farm/Build/Research. Perhaps master parenting is relevant? I really don't want to go there except at the last minute. It would completely disrupt my breeding program.

I hate to admit this, but I haven't solved all the puzzles in either of my tribes yet.

How have you managed to get so many elders? I have 3 in my first tribe and 4 in the 2nd.

Britney:

Yes it does make sense, but it could be also the male wasn't used at all. However, a 9 is at the outer edge of possibility with those numbers as well.

I've been following this thread while I've tried a new game on hard with few people and until today everyone bred pretty much how your chart says. TODAY though there's a weird one.

Mom #21 and Dad #11 had a #7 child.

I had bred the same father with 2 different mothers at the time and the first one was right around the correct number in your chart. The mother that had the #7 child was a first time mother and was the second one of the two to breed.

I only have 22 people and 3/4's of the way through the game, so I haven't bred that much

Is is possible when you breed the same man to two different women that they somehow "warp" the possibilities?

Just a quick note. I have refrained from posting in this thread due to the concern regarding it not having a spoiler tag. Fortunately, another member wrote to me privately and we worked together to come up with a better title. LadyCII just helped by changing the title. So thanks to all for the help.

Also, my apologies to anyone who may have been adversely affected by the title not being appropriate identified with a spoiler tag.

Now, to the replies which I'll post a little later. My attempt to get my "Vicki's Blondes" tribe to have at least ONE blonde villager is proving to be extremely frustrating. So far, after multiple breedings of the villagers with the highest numbers, they have either replicated themselves or had children with a lower number (not the direction I wanted to go!). Now I'm hoping very much for the barrel of babies (which I have not had in either of my tribes) with at least a male and female with blonde hair. I'd LOVE a couple of #30s! Can we special order our children? LOL!

I'll send you my ONE blonde girl and guy after I get a daughter AND a son from them in exchange for a couple that have black hair.

I have a 6m and 7f I could trade. Every time they breed, they only give me more #6s and more #7s. Argh!

Too bad we can't change aspects of the villagers, such as their hair color, like we can their clothes. But that would actually make it too easy. I like the challenge of breeding for specific children.

I finally got my first child with a higher number! She's a 19F. Her parents are 19m and 18f. I have breed them many times to the point I'm my second generation of them, and this was the first time they finally gave me a higher number. So now I have a 19m and 19f to breed. It's a long, long way from 30 (considering that 15 is the halfway mark). But it's added a lot of fun to the game for me. I will feel very accomplished when I finally get a blonde child in that tribe!

Also, so far every villager that has passed on made it to Esteemed Elder, including the female breeders (but except the older female from the very start of the tribe). I have 8 more elders to go to get my 50!

I don't want them to make it that easy for us because then we couldn't find reasons to keep making more tribes.....or look after them and play longer.

Then too, I've been playing it over, and over, and over again and just found out that builders will become masters just by fixing up the huts. So for people like me easy is probably a GOOD thing!!!! LOL

I bred another man with two women one after the other just to see if the type of child would be as different as my other one. Will unpause (is that a word?) tomorrow and let you know after I have new kiddies running around!

Here's a couple of interesting exceptions.



23 M + 21 F



24 M + 26 F

16Female and 16Male had 15Female.

I've got a 10m and 29f breeding and will post their results.
Out of curiosity, Complexity, will you update the chart with all the new results to make it easier for people so they don't have to scroll through everything?

Here she is, a 19
10+29=39
39 divided by 2=19.5 or 20.
First time breeding.

I have an unusual child.



10+24=34/2=17 real #4

That is weird. I will post all unusual children out of my 3 tribes started for this reason and all oddballs will be shown.

Here's my oddball.

Mother is 14 and the father is 15 so the average should have been around 14 and 15 as well, but instead we got a 23.

I tend to have more black hairs in my tribe because I really like that look and tended to breed them more often, but until this chart, I didn't really have a set strategy to get them. Now I'm going to see if I can get any blond haired ones. It's going to be hard because most of mine are in the 1-16 range.

Here is something that I noticed:

In one tribe, I had 2 villagers that had green clothes. They had kids together and all of their kids had green clothes. In another pair in another tribe, there was a couple with green clothes but none of their kids had green clothes.

Maybe LadyCFII can make this thread a sticky after VV3 is released. It's really lots of fun to try to get that ONE child. Especially when you think you've done it only to have some wild child show up!!

Here's another.



19 M + 19 F = 30 M

This 30 M is one of a set of twins.

It's starting to look like these children don't really have any parents. None of them so far have any skills like their "sisters & brothers" do, or it's a _bug_.

Wow! I have a lot of catching up to do to add everyone's exceptional children to my list. Thanks so much for the pictures!

I've been pretty busy lately, but I have *of course* made time to keep working with my villagers. I got really lucky and got a Savage Child that was a #22. That worked so well to help me bring back the blondes!

I've kept selectively breeding to the point I now have a 28m and 24f, both of which are very blonde! So now my "Vicki's Blondes" has some real blondes in it!

What's (w)5 and (m) 2 make?

5+2=7/2=3.5

That means you are equally likely to get a 3 girl, a 4 girl, a 3 boy, or a 4 boy.

I just don't get the different #s could someone xplain? sorry if I sound stupid!

had an 11+28... I wonder what it'll look like!

Also going to try my m4 and f23... but they're a little too young. Try 13 and 8 years respectively!
P.S. what's the age when they can start "breeding"?

18 years.

thanks. I'm really new compared to everyone else.

THIS ROCKS!!! I'm so excited except i only have two males now THANK YOU!

I've got 3 more. I most likely won't have many more in the future as I'm pretty much at max population. I'm trying to lose most of my dark haired ones as I had gotten a slew of 6 & 7 males trying to get the 6 and 7 females! I got twice as many 7 males as 7 females (8/4), and three times the 6 males as 6 females (9/3). I was completely unsuccessful in getting any 12s at all and only managed to get one 22 female. I'll be playing with my blondes mostly for a bit now.



16 + 16 = 5 M



19 + 19 = 28 F



19 + 19 = 30 F

The 19 F mother is the same for the 28 F and 30 F. She is also the daughter of the 19 F who gave me the 30 M twins.

Although the pic below isn't an exception, she's is one of my successes! I have three 29 females so far!



Good luck on your blondes Complexity!

@spitfyre13

On the first page of this thread are pictures of the available male and female heads. Complexity assigned a number to each head and discovered that how the children look are almost always based on a range using the average of these numbers taken from the parents.

Using my pic of Caia II above as an example. Her mother is a #26 and her father is a #30. 26 + 30 = 56 divide by 2 and you get an average of 28. The most common average range for this couple would be 27, 28, 29. So their children should almost always be one of those numbers. Caia II is a 29, so she fits perfectly.

The other pictures I posted are exceptions. Children totally out of the average range. Exceptions happen every once in a while and Complexity is trying to figure out why they happen.

I hope this explanation helps!

OMG! I had my own eugenics program too! I started with a village of all dark villagers and, for fun, selectively bred them to all become blonds. Those unfortunate enough to be dark haired weren't allowed to breed and M1,7,8,30 F11,14,30 had to eat the poison soup... Sadly reminiscent of WWII... But still strangely amusing. Thank you Complexity for figuring it out! I never thought to look at the image files! I think at some point I might also make my own alternative images for the numbers above.

Now I'm gonna try to do my two 28's... I wonder if using two of the same makes it mutate? That could be an interesting thing to find out...

@spitfyre13

When I breed two like numbers, you see what happens above sometimes, an exception. Usually however I get the same kid over and over. In the case of my breeding of 6's I got almost all 6 boys. I didn't even count all the other's that weren't 6's. 3/4 of my tribe were dark haired by that time, but I got extremely lucky with 26 females and 16 females. Then I got the best exceptions possible which was the 30 males, and just recently the 30 female. The problem with the 30's is I haven't been able to recreate them deliberately, so far...

@lloydbug

I just found out yesterday that you could kill your villagers. I thought about this about a week ago that there should be something in there to do that, but I didn't find anything. I had a very nasty villager with NO parenting skills going around and making babies behind my back. I tried to make him sick so he'd die but that doesn't seem to work. I had to trap him in one of those sticky spots so he couldn't do anything. He spent about 40 years there until he died.

I hope I am doing this right. I am trying to include a picture of Aziza, who is an exception. Mother, Huma, is a 26, and dad, Amago is a 14. Aziza ia a 4. I hope this is right. Very interesting. So far, I have also bred a man and woman (both 27) and got a 29 boy. This in my quest to get a 30 girl, who was my very first child in VV1.

Thanks for all your hard work!

kelbek

what if the avg number is 29.5 what are the posibiltys?

@Lovelychunks

Most likely a 28, 29, or 30. IMO though, that's a good chance for an exception.

Ugh! So this must be why my 3f and 16m keep giving me these ugly little 8m's!

Why can't they just give me a 9m or 10f/m!?

I LOVE this thread. In VV2, I was breeding the blondes together, the redheads separately, and then the dark haired ones. I love the women with long straight hair or the curls. Now I know what to do with my future games. BTW, in VV3 when I mated two blondes and got a black haired child and asked if it was a _bug_, this was LadyCFII's response: "That's a normal occurrence for Virtual Villagers, ever since inherited appearance was introduced in VV2. Occasionally you will get an "unexpected" result. That is welcomed by people who don't want to see certain traits vanish from the tribe, and is disliked by people who are trying, for example, to achieve an all-blonde tribe."

awesome work; i also bought the game for the breeding interest, but got lost in trying to track the patterns - kudos! any chance you will do this for VV3?

also, a sub-interest of mine is whether there is a pattern to the inheritance of the child's interests and dislikes. i would loooove to have a whole tribe of 'runners' for example, but have no clue how to try to breed for a preference trait.

I think we'd all love a tribe of runners :P But I don't think that algorithm has been cracked yet

After playing VV games for a couple years, I just found this thread too. I find it fascinating from a math/genetics stand, yet also somewhat disturbing from a "master race" viewpoint. I know they're only pixels, but just the idea of breeding for blondes (or whatever) is unnerving. (Maybe I shouldn't say anything, I've been known more than once to knock off an annoying villager with poisionous stew and have also tried to unsuccessfully to breed for runners.)

By the way, in order to up your odds for the preferred traits, have you tried simply deleting a game you just started if you didn't like who you got to start your tribe? If you keep trying new tribes enough, I would think you would increase your chances of getting the "good" genes for your breeding program.

Anyone know what 18 and 22 make?

Here is my exception 17+17=34/real #30

18+22=40 /2=20 so you'd likely get 18, 19, 20, 21, 22

I know the topic is a month old, and the post I'm replying to is even older, but I saw this and had to add my two cents . . .



I don't really see this as being that difficult; it certainly seems to be a lot to track, but all you really have to do is record the parents when each child is born, which we know the game already does. Also, it would need to reserve the data until all grandchildren die off.

When a child is born, parents are A and B, so look up the parents of A, and the parents for B to determine possible variations. When a villager dies, find its grandparents, then see if those villagers line is dead down to two generations; if so, drop the data. (This means that when generation 3 dies off, generation 1 will know it; so drop the data about generation 2's parents, since generation 4 will never use it. A little confusing, I realize.) Seeing as the sum total of a villager for the purposes of genetics is a head number, it seems like a small amount of data for even a weak computer (by today's standards) to handle. In addition, the program can generate and track this database as the villagers are born; it's not like the programmers have to program a huge, 125-villager family tree into the game, complete with blanks to be filled in, and room for 250 parents and 500 grandparents.

Granted, I kind of doubt grandparents are a factor in the deviant results; such random outcomes as we see in life would be easily replicated by occasionally using a random number generator instead of a close average. However, I don't see any difficulty in the idea at all.

Got an oddity! [img="http://pics.livejournal.com/heldc/pic/00066957"][/img]

OMG! complexity (now i know why that is your name...lol)
thats amazing work! thank you

I did read this whole thread, but I want to make a question clear. Does this method work for VV3? And if so, where can you find the images file for the heads?

Yes. It's in the game's images directory; Male_heads.png and female_heads.png.

I can't seem to find it. Meh I'm probably going to need a step-by step guide to get there.

You can see instructions for VV3 here. It's the same for VV2, except for the directory, of course.

ok i read through all of the posts and I would like to know if i have a 21m and 21f would the child be a 21m or 21f? or is the range still in play if the parnets have the same head

oh yeah another thing somebody said that most tribes will end up with all brown haired ppl. um in like all my tribes all my villagers are blonde.( when i start my tribe i tend to make the eldest male look like one of my fave villagers and my faves are blonde or the starting female is blonde so my gentics end up blonde.

A 21 and a 21 make a 21 - usually. The range is always in play; they might be a 20 or a 22, or some freak random head. I don't believe the genetics have anything to do with male or female.

thanks just wanted to know if the whole range still applied in at case. then after i posted i relooked at the 1st post and saw the chart were the same heads didn't get the same head kids.

Not sure if you are still tracking this, but I had an exception. I put a couple people on parenting last night and when I got up this morning I had this girl running around. By my calculations these two should've had a 15 16 17 18 or 19 but got a 29. Other than this kid my villagers have been spot on every time.

I have tryed the chart . It does work . I found an anomoly in the math . Here's an example . I got this 14+11 = 25 , 2/25 = 12.2 . If you get a .2 as in 12.2 your your child would be an 13 not 12 . anything over .1 to .9 , just move up one on the chart .
If this has been posted before I'm sorry, I didn't check every post .

Not an anomaly per se, I think, it's just that the machine rounds up, instead of rounding to the nearest.

Did you get that result through repeated trials, or only one pairing? The original poster claims that the decimal-children would be likely to, in this case, be a 12 OR a 13, without a greater likelihood of being one or the other. (With drift into the 10, 11, 14, 15 range)

you are right:i should avoid ugly kids now!

strange, but she is a nice kid!

This thread is great! Okay, I have maybe a dumb question though. Is it possible to rearrange the order of heads in the program, thereby rearranging the number system? But that, I mean the numerical order of the heads stays the same, but rearrange the heads, so that what was number 6, is now 26. See what I mean?

It may not be possible or completely irrelevant, not sure. I'm many things, but a programmer is NOT one of them

lol boy 28 is a mohawk

You don't have to be a programmer, pumpkin, but you would have to be good at modifying the game's image files. You could, indeed, rearrange the heads in the image files, but you would have to carefully align everything to make sure that the heads fit on the bodies properly after you've rearranged them.

Agghh! I don't think I can do that. But theoretically speaking, would doing that effect the order of genetics?

Well, technically it wouldn't change the "genetic order" from a programming perspective, but it would change the villager you get from a specific pairing. For example, if you reversed the heads for villager #1 and #10, then whenever a pairing would result in villager head 10, you'd get 1, instead (because you moved head 1 to the number 10 position).

it is imposibble to get a .2 when it is divided! 14+11=25/2=12.5.

(Before I ask my question, I would like to thank Complexity for coming up with such an excellent system for determining code outcomes for villager heads. I was originally against the idea because I loved the randomness of just finding out. But, having read this thread, I have discovered that it is still a bit random, and at that I am overjoyed! And so I say, GREAT JOB COMPLEXITY FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK!!)

Ok, I've been wanting to re-create a villager that I used in my story. He was a #3m, but I only had one #3m, and he never had any kids. All my attempts to "make a new him" lead me to all sorts of exceptions, and unfortunately caused my entire number range to move toward #10 to #25 rather than produce any lower ones.

Fortunately, I had a freak accident with two villagers that I didn't put together, who were a #12f and #24m, that produced a #4f. I'm mating her with #10m, (as well as only 10s 11s, and 12s) in hopes to bring the numbers lower.

I've now gone through the trouble of actually tacking on a head number to each of my villagers' names. I'm surprised by how many exceptions I have, and might list them later.

Has anyone else completely lost numbers #1 through #9 in both their males and females? Was anyone successful in bringing them back? I would really love to have this once villager so I can continue to use him in pics for my story. Thank you.

Well happy I have a tribe in which all the people are in the 14-22 range but then I got a 26m and a 7f. So there is that chance that you'll have a special child.

I tend to find that you get a lot of 'mid range' people, if you let the village run it's course and don't really put people together specifically.

That's because their numbers have a greater chance of coming out (think of two dice being thrown - one of the most likely numbers is 7 because there are a number of ways to get it, and there's only one way to get 2 and 12 so they come out less)

But, if you want a specific person and you know their number, there will be a way of getting them just by working it out and gradually breeding up or down the numbers (like you said HappyPlayer - breeding your #4f with specific people!)

It might take a couple of generations and some trial and error, and maybe some unaccountable people too, but I bet you'll get him again

You could also always start a new tribe and see who you start with. If the starting people are closer to his numbers that might be a better way, or you might even get lucky and get him right from the start!

Update: (I was nearly devastated.) The outcome of 10m+4f was 22f!
But the other matches produced many 10s and 11s. I hope to get a little more variety as I try it again.

I'd put the 10m+4f together again, because their 22f child might have been a one off, and the rest of their children could be their average number after all

Update 2: One of my 10m+11f gave me a #9m, and my 11m+12f gave me a #9f, but I tried elizabeths' suggestion and put 10m+4f back together and got an #8f!! I'm going to get there!!

However, unfortunately one of my mid-range males (a #18) decided he wanted on the baby making bandwagon, and I ended up with a bunch of extra mid-range babies while I was away waiting.

But with the lower numbers begining to appear again, I'm happy. My only concern is that I will hit my max population before I get my #3 male.

Happy, I find that your best bet is to grab the male with the lowest head number, and let him get the entire village pregnant - it works best with high population counts. If your population is maxed, picking a young villager with that head type helps.

Out of all those kids, when they grow up, find the lowest head number again, and repeat. (Or with the original parent, if you're not one of those squeamish about breeding programs in your village.) Even without 'mutant' hair colors, you will creep down the scale - some villagers will be higher on the scale, some lower, but as long as you always breed from the lowest on the scale, you'll get there.

let me see, the hair of the heads
1-9=black hair
10-15=dark brown hair
16-20=red hair
21 and 22=light brown hair
23-29=yellow hair
30 white haired woman/man with no hair
or am i wrong?
sorry if this is already posted.

yeah that seems about right!

If you want to see the pictures of all the villager heads you can take a look in Program Files on your comp and look for the Virtual Villagers folder, and then images.

update: i had a male who makes every woman of age 18-50 pregnant: it is a 30m. he is not the golden child because he is 19, and she made a woman pregnant, and she is a 22f. i think there will be a 26. i do not know.

sequel

suprisingly it is a 23f! i tought it would be 24, 25, 26, 27, or 28 but it also can be a 23! but why?

Even though it was close to the range there alway is a possiblity of having a child out of the range.

update two: you are right, tkdgirl223! look, i have a 21f, and with the 30m, i think there is a possibility out of a 16/15f, my favorite hairtype.

sequel

yay! they produced a 15f. she started with the name Chika, but her look made me so happy that i had no other choice but to rename her Precious. and she has a triplet! they are Patricia, and a boy named Patrice. it is a 15m instead.

Two options. One, that the ranges are wider than we thought, but the chance of going so far outside the range is very low.

Two, it's already well-known that mutant hair colors (with no apparent relation to either parent) can occur. It can simply be one of these random hair colors, that by random chance, falls close to, but not inside, the expected range.

i think you also mean to do it with update 2, since i have a 21f with a 30m produced "15" triplets.

I don't know what you mean by 'do it with update 2', but since a 21 and a 30 should produce something in the 23-28 range, and most likely a 25 or 26, getting a 15 or a 16 is very unlikely.

As I mentioned, having children with totally random hair colors is normal. It's not terribly common, but it happens, and there's no known connection between them; they're apparently random. This is likely the reason a 15 was produced from 30 and 21.

EDIT: Or perhaps you think I meant to respond to update two? No, I intended to respond to the post I quoted. Your result was outside the expected range - even you commented on it. As I posted, this is possibly because it was a random head type that randomly fell close to, but not within, the expected range.

but i just got good luck.

update 3

1 have a 25f now. her name is Taipawva. she is very cute. she says a 'yay' when you pick her up.

9m is an ugly kid.......

a 4Female and 10Male produced a 7F, but it also can produce a 6 or a 8, but a 5 or a 9 happens very rarely, but keys to get more blondes and brunettes are:

9Male+22Female=29Female
15Male+14Female=9Male
10Male+9Female=18Male
29Female+9Male=18Male
29Female+18Male=9Male

hope it helps!

1Female+30Male=31/2=15Child, but it also can be a 16Child or 17Child or some unusual head.

Er . . . not sure who you're responding to, Williamani.

i am responding to Complexity. thanks for showing this.

Complexity doesn't seem to have posted regularly since may, and since then appears to have posted only regarding technical issues; using PM might be more likely to get his attention, since often people receive email notification of those.

Complexity is a she, not a he.

I stand corrected.

what do you mean with 'stand corrected'?

by the way, i was shocked. the outcome of 30Male+18Female=48/2=24 real 29Female! i like 29Females.

"I stand corrected" is a figure of speech that means, basically, I have been corrected. Meaning I messed up.

As for 30 and 18, it sounds like another random result; getting a head type unrelated to either parent appears to be a random, but regular occurrence. If these notes are meant to reach complexity, as mentioned, she does not seem to read the forums regularly, so your best bet is a PM.

I had a No. 8 male, who had one child with a No. 3 female, and the average would be about 5, and the child was 5!(male, that is )

umm.. i di not mean a Pm, because i really liked it.

oh my, i got a p-p-p-pink haired girl..... i really got it! i think it is from the pink haired girl mod i am using. what #__Female is it?

I think it would be it's own # thou the head and hair( not pink) makes it look like head 9.

Since it's a mod, it has to replace one of the standard heads; I think she's asking which head it replaces, so that she knows how to try and breed more. Unfortunately, I have no idea, so I'm useless here.

I looked at the mod file and Miss Pink Hair is #17.

yes, i regocnised Miss Pink Hair, yes, she is #17. she was earlier age 12, now age 16.



9Male+23Female=17Female(Miss Pink Haired Girl) but it can also be a 16#, or a 15#.

There should be more details about the villager. Looking at the save game file, and that cheif and bla is random each time you open the game, there maybe have a important level(or il), -5 to 5.
-5 to -1 is that they will make their parter's level less.

Example:
1m, 2 il
30f, 3 il
Chances:

13,14,15,16,17,18

Example 2:
1m, -5 il
20f, 1 il ( -4 il)

9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21

But, I could be totally wrong.

i dont understand what is il. can you not make it simplifier?

EDIT: well, how do you tell how many points/levels/il it is off the average?

EDIT 2: i think you are totally wrong.

am i a she? call me a he. I am an man. you can tell it by my username. it is williaMANi.

Either I don't understand how you're using the "Importance levels", or I don't understand your math. 1 and 30 average to 15.5, which should give a range 12-18, with 15 and 16 being the most common. This "Importance Level" seems to only raise the number by 0.5, but I'm not sure how you got 0.5 out of levels 2 and 3. Adding them together should give you a much larger +5. And on top of that, you've got an extra possibility closer to the villager with the lower level.

I don't understand example two at all. The outcome of that pairing should be 10.5, and 10 and 11 the common results. Instead, 9 and 10, slightly below the average, are common at one end of the spectrum, and 20, who is only barely above zero importance, is the other end of the spectrum. Outcomes between these two are rare possbilities, but not below the average or above the "level 1" villager. I think you need to explain how these numbers are supposed to affect the selection.

It SEEMS like you're trying to determine how 'dominant' or 'recessive' a villager's genes are . . . but I think your system is much more complex than it has to be. Remember, for a programmer or a mathematician, simplicity is beautiful. Einstein spent a very, very long time using math to describe our universe, but his greatest achievement, the foundation of the theory of relativity, was one of the simplest of equations: E=MC².

I think a better idea might be simply to assign random values, as you suggest, but don't do any calculations on them; just give the one that's higher a set level of precedence in determining the children. For instance, you might average the villagers to determine the outcome, then average that outcome again with the dominant villager. So, a 10 and a 30 equal a 20. If the 30 has a higher level than the 10, you might averaging the outcome, 20, with 30 again gives you 25. If the ten were more dominant, averaging the outcome again by 10 would give you 15. Any other system would also work, but this is just an example.

Must have mistaken Isolyan's post for yours. Don't worry, Mr Manny, I'd never mistake you for a girl.

phew.
ugh, i think it is just the average. i don't know what "improtancy ils/levels" you are mentioning. i don't really know what you mean. i highly think the average is what the parents are.

i think this is it:
1Female+30Male
chances:
13 14 15 16 17 18
i really don't want to be mean, i really don't, but, tell us. how did you get that in your mind?

I don't think we can say he's wrong, until we know how he's trying to use these numbers, including the 'IL', to arrive at that result. But I really do want to know how that's being done, because I don't understand.

i think Lailai is meaning:

il = average point

a average point is how many points it can be off. most commonly it will be the average, but there is a possibility that there can be one average point away from it. or even two. you are luckier if you have 3 points off the average. but a child under the average range does never give you luck.

a average range is as big as 3 average points. or even you can excpect a 4-point-off or even 5-point-off which produces a very special child.

it can be 1 average point long, 2 average points long, 3 average points long, or even 4 average point or even 5 average points long. but never 2- or 3-, because the most child ALWAYS is the middle. so, every parent has 5 il. no exceptions.

If there are no exceptions, how do you explain two blonde-haired parents producing a black-haired child, or vice versa? I see that happen all the time.

I've already explained why I don't think this is the case in my first response to LaiLai.Because of this, and also because example two doesn't provide a range of numbers that is less likely on the outside of the range, but MORE likely on the outside of the range, and a range that stretched from .5 away from the average all the way to the same number as one of the parents, I think what LaiLai is trying to do isn't nearly that simple.

No operation like what you describe could possibly, concievably result in example two: something else has to be going on in LaiLai's suggestion.