Sorry, didn't read it properly, been playing the game obsessively for 3 days obviously need a good nights kip! I had the same thing with a builder who for ten years his line looked the same as my 2 other master builders but he was still adept I began to suspect that there was perhaps a limit to how many elders you can have at one time but after 11years he finally changed even though his line didn't move. Apparently according to something Lady CFII posted elesewhere there skill seems to increase quicker while the game is off