That post didn't even address our problems or concerns. It just flaked over a few things. We followed the "simple SB rules" most of the time. And you know what? We still got yelled at. Please tell me how saying LOL to a user's joke is considered against the "simple SB rules" We can't laugh at each others jokes? You say the rules are easy to understand and follow but they're not! They don't even make sense with the stuff we've gotten yelled at for.

~Havetia Silva

I think one reason we're not allowed to lol is because it's considered "frivilous". I'd guess it adds on to the longer conversasion or something like that.

I'm sorry Rocky, I like ya loads and all but:
Unfortunately, I was expecting such a response. Once again, the concerns of the members are overlooked and we are fed the standard "follow the rules" statements. But if anyone pays attention in class here, you would see that the rules are in conflict with the moderating style of the SB and are the issue, at least partly. And it seems that Rockmower's own words contradict the quote he puts at the bottom of his post.



but then later, in the same post the SB rules are quoted to say:

"Pull up a chair and your favorite beverage and talk about life and LDW games. It should be a place where newbies are welcomed into the family and everyone feels comfortable joining in the conversation."

Sounds like a cozy fun place to be... as long as you keep it short and sweet, drink your drink real fast, get on and then get out. The statement quoted from the Shout Box Rules is nothing more than an empty platitude. A falsehood said to lure one into thinking this is a warm and wonderful place. It has become very cold and now lacks personality, so why not just complete it by removing the SB and there will not be any misleading perceptions or expectations?

Rocky, I am sorry, but what a bunch of 'spin it my way once again'. Seriously, I think you would be so much better off trying to understand it from our point of view than once again giving us the same 'skirt the real issue' statement.

My 'LOL' was deleted a few days ago, while a remained. The posts were next to each other. The person that deleted my laughter,did not delete the , or explain how one violated rules and the other did not, even after I pointedly asked 2 or 3 times. I NEVER get a straight answer, I never get a sincere apology, (and no, "have your avi kick my avi's "butt", which was your answer when you called me a liar, is not a sincere apology, or an explaination) and I see a lot of "swallow this because I say it is in the rules".

I see 'LOL' posts there now that are allowed to stay. How do you expect that to make me feel? (yeah, that's what I thought... it's in the rules that Spinny better hush up)

Please stop talking to us like we are idiots.

Since I have not been on much, feel free to correct me if I say something misleading, wrong, ect.

When I first joined, the shout box was a place to have interesting conversations, goof around a bit, ask for help, the usual things.
I even remember at one point me and a few other peeps accidently broke it(many laughs were had). No one was punished, even though the cause of said breaking was possibly the spamming of special characters.

Now from what I'm hearing now it seems you can get punished for the smallest of things. I don't want to believe that, but I can't also believe spinny(and others apparently) would break the rules on purpose.

I don't know how much bandwidth the SB is taking, so I can't make a valid argument against that issue. But surely it can't be THAT much? Even with the increase of users (some of which who probably don't even use the SB, but that could also be credited to this issue...)

(My View on Why We Need The SB)
Using PMs to have a conversation with a bevy of people seems like an inconvenience to me. For one thing, others can't join in on the conversation unless they ask or are asked (which means filling the PM limit faster). Second, you would have to refresh the page constantly to know if you received a reply (Havetia). Third," OH and also sometimes the pages can be a pain I mean it can grow so large by the end of a convo. Because it's very hard to keep the convo if you wish because you have to copy it line at a time"
(thanks Havetia for your input)


I can't think of other reasons right now, but if they come to mind I'll add them later.

TL;DR. If the shout box wasn't there, we'd have more problems with inconvenience, threads about suggesting a SB would pop up, and new users would constantly feel pressured whether or not to ask a question about something that they can't find with the search engine(and may have or have not already been answered).

Once again... if I said something wrong or took it out of context, let me know. It's the only way I can get the full scope of the problem.

EDIT: Also, Yes lighten up on the rules a bit or the "unfair moderation". Otherwise I agree we should not have an SB at all. This isn't the place for drama.

You missed my point entirely. LDW is not complaining about the cost, as far as I know. I was merely pointing out the difference between 2 sites with active SB's.

One is ad based, & has a lot of admins and mods who CAN be on line 24x7 to supervise the content. Ours, is not ad based, has no cost to the members, but has a very limited number of mods/admins to watch over the SB.

AGAIN: In some forums the SB is intended as the primary means of communications. In THIS forum, it's a nice little addendum which allows people to chat about time sensitive issues.

AND, ONE MORE TIME: The SB here, is NOT NOT NOT intended to be the PRIMARY means which member use to communicate.


And, to the one's who think I'm putting a spin on this, I'll say only this: I am stating an opinion. It is my opinion, and mine only. It is not formed by, suggested by, nor approved by LDW. This is only MY opinion as both a moderator and a member.

And now, I will say what Barbara (bless her for being the kind, patient, gentle person that she is) would Never say.

I highly question the motives of people (friend or not) who appear to be stirring a pot of discontent. It really is this simple: If you enjoy coming here, then please stay and have fun. If not, then please take your sour attitude elsewhere.

I, for one, simply don't have the patience to deal with people who want to simply whine about how mistreated they are. You want a challenge? Go volunteer at a nursing home. Those people at least have a reason to complain.

Whoa Rocky! I hope the administrators read this and know how much you think of us, the people their income depends on, because if they are going to let people like you represent them, there won't be many willing to say anything good about LDW, will there?

Having a legitimate concern about the disrespect shown to us is not stirring the pot. We have been trying to get answers to these questions for a VERY long time. If I spoke to you the way you have spoken to me in the sb and pm's, I would have been banned. Respect is a two way street.

WE would like to see change. I don't believe it is going to happen though, as long as people with 'they are just whiners' attitudes run the show. I will spend my $$ (to date over $200, btw) on games from companies that care about their customers, and you can be sure I will not give a good review about LDW as long as I am treated like this.

And for your information, I have spent many years working in nursing homes, and facilities for developmentally disabled. I certainly hope you are never in a trusted position to care for people who cannot speak up for themselves if you think it is ok to treat people like you are 'riding herd' on them.

To show how much you don't know about me, my wife was diagnosed 2 years ago with early onset Alzheimer's. No, I don't have much patience for dealing with people who complain because a post or shout got deleted. I assure you the admins will read this as they do all new posts to the forum.

I am not disrespecting you by asking you to address legitimate concerns rather than cry because someone told you no and you thought it was unfair.

As I have told you, and others, many times, if you have a complaint about something bring it to our attention. If you have a complaint about a person try talking to that person. If you can't / won't talk directly to someone who you think is being unfair, then talk to their boss.

There are a lot of people who DO think highly of LDW and the games they create. Believe it or not, there are even one or two people who think I'm a nice guy.

I respect each person who comes here, and hope they have a pleasant experience. If you have a problem, or concern about a game, that is legitimate, and should be addressed.

But people continuing to complain incessantly (stir the pot) because they are unhappy with the shout box is not constructive to anyone. It merely darkens the attitudes of people who do come here to have fun.

Being a member does have privileges, but the right to try and tear down the forums others are working so hard to build is NOT one of them. LDW can get along just fine without people who want to rewrite the rules rather than play by them.

I will be truthful and admit that I enjoy the games. Rocky does have a point, that if you dont like it, dont look at it. So I'd like to get my account deleted, but at least leave my two finished fan fics up, please. I also see spinnies point, but this arguement is going nowhere.(that was aimed at both sides). I do think if the sb is such a problem, in its current state of underuse, it should be deleted, then the pming can commense. Good bye forum.

"As I have told you, and others, many times, if you have a complaint about something bring it to our attention. If you have a complaint about a person try talking to that person. If you can't / won't talk directly to someone who you think is being unfair, then talk to their boss."

Yes, you have, and I have tried, YOU personally told me to "have your avi kick my avi's 'butt' (only the 'a' word was used) and 'forget it' when I pm'd you about calling me a liar in the SB, so don't tell me to 'ask in private'.

WHY can't anyone just give an honest answer to the simple question I asked? Why was MY shout chosen out of many in the same 2" space as the ONE to delete? If it were yours, you would want to know too. It has made me not want to say anything in the sb, not even a 'Hi' to anyone. I AM NOT ALONE! The original question in this thread was "why do we have an sb?" That has not been answered either. What IS the purpose?

From my point of view, what you have here are loyal usres that wish to have the LDW forum be something worth coming to, and all YOU can do is insult our intelligence. Why would so many agree, and not one disagree but you, a moderator?

Nvm... you just won't try to see ... i am tired of explaining. I am sorry aboput your wife. WE ALL have hardships. Many here know I have lost my only son. I don't use it as an excuse to insult people.