Spinny, while I agree with you that you have been treated unfairly, LDW themselves is not to blame.

As I asked before, I would wish to be removed from the forum. If I need to pm someone that request, please let me know.

Actually before it goes unnoticed. Luke I think you have a good idea there. I think good would come out of it. I've seen this method work on other forums very well.

Okay now onto the current issue at hand. Oh where to even begin this. First of all I think all of us have good points and bad points. And I believe that all of us may have been a bit harsh sounding at one time or another in this thread, and I do apologize if I've come off that way. I also believe that there has been some miscommunication through all this although I can't seem to put my finger on what exactly is being misunderstood. Also I do still believe to some extent there is some..what's a good word here. Grudges being held between certain members/admins/mods that are making them judgemental. I'm not pointing fingers at any particular person I'm just saying. I'm stating opinion not fact.

I know we all make mistakes. We all do. We're only human. Nothing more or less. It's in our nature to do so. Moderaters and Admins can't be perfect all the time. And I realize this. But I just feel it got out of hand. I personally have no idea why my hello (just one in there not like rows of them) Got deleted. *shrugs*

I believe that there has been fault on both sides of this fence. But I still believe that there have been many things here that have happend that were uncalled for. Like I found Spinny get called a liar for stating that her VF peeps were jumping on the cat, which I have seen with my own eyes AND even have a screenshot. I've seen Jayla get yelled out for answering a question in there that was NOT a spoiler.

Basically I feel like anymore, what CAN we talk about without being red-gloved?

I hope somebody can make sense of this ramble.

~Havetia Silva

I'll start off with saying this whole topic has made me sit back and carefully consider everyone's viewpoints.

I'd like to apologize first for anyone that I might have offended. I have never meant to cause offense. I do realize that I have most likely been overzealous at times in my administration of the forums. I am of aware of that, and have been doing my best to not allow that to happen again. Barbara is an excellent teacher and I learn from her every time we speak.

There's not much else to say that hasn't been said previously in this thread by others - admins, mods & members alike. I think several members have had good ideas; ones that are worthy of attention.

That being said, I hope *all* of you will stick around and work with us (or just be patient, that's good too!) while we straighten out this situation and get things back on track.

I come here regularly to read the forums, but never pay any attention to the SB. That's not quite true - I have happened to notice my name a couple of times there and responded, but normally I don't use it. There is a certain element of dèja vu here, as I well recall the earlier thread on the same subject linked to by Barbara; I was surprised then as now about the ill-feeling generated by the SB and its use and (alleged) misuse.

I started here before the SB was made available, and wouldn't miss it if LDW were to decide to withdraw it. As I said, I don't use it myself anyway, but if it's the cause of ill-feeling among the community perhaps it ought to be removed. On the other hand, I realise that a number of people enjoy using it.

I've spent many years using the Internet and am only too aware that it is possible for someone to misunderstand what someone has written, and take issue with it, even though the original person had no intention of causing offence. With the SB the problem is greater than in the forum itself since responses are written quickly, without time for editing, and are seen almost instantly.

I expect this to be my last comment in this thread, and on this subject, as well, at least in public. If anyone wants to continue discussing specific issues with me, PLEASE move it to a PM. Feel free to include others if you wish, but it's rarely a good idea to air private grievances in public.

Luke You are welcome here, as is everyone. You have made contributions that I at least consider valuable, and I would like to see you continue.

Spinny, I never said I wanted you to leave either. You are another of the currently active members, and you are helping shape the current face of the forum.


As Barb pointed out, this forum is in a state of constant change. The way it is now, is not the same as it was a year ago, or will be year from now.

When I came here, the list of "active members" (those who logged in daily) was entirely different. So were the conversations. If you remain an active member here for very long, you will notice a similar change.

The point I'm trying to make to all of you is this:

Everyone deserves to be happy. The founding fathers of the Republic we call the United States of America considered it to be one of the core rights of all people. They ranked it right up there with Life & Liberty.

Knowing this, my advice is that we, as individuals, need to decide what makes us happy. We also need to decide what makes us unhappy.

If you walked into a restaurant and found the food good, you'd probably come back. If, after visiting that establishment for a period of time, the food changed and you no longer liked it, you'd probably quit going there.

You might come back from time to time to see if things changed, or you might not. No one would be telling you not to come back, nor would you be asking for a refund on the many fine meals you enjoyed up to that point.

It is a decision, a highly personal one, that each of us has to make. "Am I happy?" If yes, Great! If no, then "What will make me happy?"

If I own the restaurant, then I can make decisions based on my customers feedback. I can keep some items on the menu, and take others off. I can try new recipes, or stick with some old favorites.

I do not, however expect the customers to start demanding that I fire the cook, or change the seating arrangements.

What would you do if you found out a server was spitting in the food of one or more of your loyal customer's, even if that person did it because they thought the customer complained too much or broke a rule of dining etiquette?

I would like to start this post out with my own apology. I am sorry that in my second post I seemed to have attacked Rockmower directly. The fact is, his statement was written and therefore put himself out there. As a representative of LDW, it may have been more prudent to have let the Administration make the first move. I do however want to say it was not an attack. It was yet another example of how the rules are interpreted by others. It was pointing out how, even though the rules say one thing, they can get twisted into something else to fit one's own perception of how things should be run.

When I got the invite from Carla, I was told specifically to bring back the fun factor to the forum. I tried with all my might to make that happen. I used my own knowledge of Flash to create coloring books and a maze. I ran a few contests and forum games (Although the Easter Egg Hunt was a disaster and I take full credit for that one). In the end I failed. Some of my failure was due to the restraints given to me later and then, what I perceived as lack of interest in what I was trying to do. I can only do so much. In the end, I felt as if I were nothing more than a glorified member with extra powers (which I do miss but it was me who asked for my demotion).

The history lesson of LDW, though fascinating, didn't really, in my opinion, have much of anything to do with my original post. I thought my message was clear. I took 3 days to compose that post. It was a factual representation of my views of a problem between the LDW Forum and its members. I was not just complaining. I was stating it as I saw it and I gave a solution to those issues. I had a boss once who taught me not to complain about something unless you have a viable solution to the complaint. I did that. Remove the SB. Drastic? Yes. A solution to the problem? Yes.

It was said above,

I do not believe anybody, ESPECIALLY myself, ever belittled or blamed Carla and Arthur. I had the great fortune to meet them personally and sit with them at a sidewalk café in San Francisco. They are 2 of the nicest people you will ever meet. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit with them and I will treasure that moment in my history for as long as my brain still functions properly. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and what they do. They would have been people I would have loved to cultivate into a personal friendship, but that would most likely have been a conflict of interest.

Nobody has a complaint in this thread about the games they produce. I can imagine the tremendous battle they have trying to make a living making the games they do in this topsy-turvy world of economical uncertainty. I applaud their effort and hope they always find a way to make it work for them. If it works for them, then we benefit from it. I really just wanted to go on record with that. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand but, again, since it was posted, the door was open for comment.

Though LDW is Arthur and Carla, and the forum is a bi-product of LDW, they are not the "front man". Yes, they give it direction, but it is not them who are here everyday, dealing with the day-to-day issues that arise. They have better things to focus on. That is why they chose to have someone else deal with that. So, again, I don't see how the history lesson has anything to do with what my original post was about. If anything, it actually reinforced it. Though not intentionally, it reinforced my observation.


A couple of those points are these:

• "Once the Shout Box arrived with the first forum software upgrade in late 2006, before many of you arrived here, the entire character of the forums changed, and so did the workload associated with managing them."
• ...the Shout Box became the center of activity here, which put a tremendous load on moderators and admins. We simply cannot operate a chat room, IM service, or social media network with the scarce resources we have..."
• "...things are always falling through the cracks. It was entirely LDW's fault that the 'focus' part failed, since we simply didn't have the time, resources, or money to fuel the fun in a way that fit our stated strategy."

So, again, my solution is remove the SB. Remove the SB and it will remove many other variables that have a negative impact on the company image as a whole.

One last point I would like to address before I end this post, and again, I am sorry if this is rather direct, but it needs saying. It was stated above that:
"LDW can get along just fine without people who want to rewrite the rules rather than play by them."

Yes, LDW CAN get along fine without some people, but when there is an obvious conflict, it is our right to bring it to the attention of those who count and MAKE changes. THAT is what this country is based on. THAT is the reason we have soldiers. THAT is how we make a better life for ourselves. I will not idly stand by and have someone tell me not to make waves in the pool. I will not cower in the corner while someone tells me that "this is the way it is, like it or lump it". That didn’t work for me when my Dad told me that as a kid and it surely doesn’t work for me now as an adult.

As much as I protest, I protest to bring positive change. As much as this place has aggravated me in the past, I cannot seem to cut the apron strings so-to-speak. It is out of my unwavering loyalty to Arthur and Carla that I protest. I know this can be a better place. I know what potentials this place could have. I couldn't do it as a moderator, so now that I don't have the stigma of "company representative" anymore, I am once again free to state my own opinions and if I rally the troops behind me, great! Maybe someone will finally listen and concede for the greater good. Do not tell me to, in essence, sit down and shut up. That will just make me find a bigger soapbox in which to stand upon and a bigger megaphone to yell through.

I have brought this SB issue up as a moderator more times than I can count, though my solution wasn't to remove the SB. Maybe if I bring this to a public forum, maybe I will be taken a bit more seriously. This is all said and done with love. Trust me. Nowhere in here should this be conceived as hostile attacks. I just think that for all things said, maybe LDW would be better off without the SB. The SB, when looked at by the public, is a place to have open conversations and get a bit silly with one another. If that is not what the SB is to be, and if it causes all the hostility it seems to, and added workload, and headaches, maybe getting rid of it would be the best plan of action.

Well said Gamey! I would just like to add...

"LDW can get along just fine without people who want to rewrite the rules rather than play by them."

I think most of us would be more than happy to play by 'the rules' if there were rules that everyone could understand, and if they were applied equally to everyone.

(who knew a simple LOL was against the rules? Seriously?)

...and for Pete's sake, if a mod has issue with something said in the SB, let the user know in a pm, Own your decision, and explain in specific terms why you see it as a violation. It seems to me like we should have the right to know what we did wrong and why it is against the rules, how else do we learn? If that is too much to handle, then perhaps there should not be an SB.

I have read all the posts and I think the solution to part of the problem is what Luke said. Why don't you get more moderators on, so that you can have momderators on 24 hours a day and here is how I think you could go about this.

1. Ask who would like to be a moderator.
2. Interview them to see who would qualify.
3. Make sure that there is at least 2 mods on at all times. So make sure you pick out enough to help in this area.

I do think that you need to relax on your rules a little bit or just tweak them a little.
Like the frivolous posts. If someone comes on and that's all he/she does or say, then I can understand. Why come in if that is all you're going to say.

Also I think you might want to lighten up on the role-play. That's what makes life fun. And a lot of games come from this. And of course don't let it run a muck just let it happen sometimes.

Now for the answers that really haven't been answered, just skirted around, like where one person was getting picked on. Since the issue has been brought to light, maybe it won't happen again and we can try to forgive and forget and start over with a new slate.

~ManiacMom