But really in this game are the women even doing that? To me it seems more goofy than anything, seriously, watch her take the trash out or read the paper, it's like the bundle of baby isn't even there.

That's no offense to the designers, I personally love how things are so goofy about it, like the over romanticized 'trying to make a baby' if anything should strike anyone as sexist, it should be that right there. Again, not saying I think it is, like I said, I love the goofyness, it's like old episodes of I Love Lucy and things of that nature.

We are mostly adults here (don't know the ratio, so I'm guessing) and we know the difference between make believe and real life, and the children that do play it, I'm sure they'll see things the way I see them, as goofy little quirks to an awesome game. And if they don't, or their parents don't and feel it inappropriate, well then they are adults and they know how to make the decision for their child.

Let me preface this by saying I have no strong feelings one way or another on this subject, though admittedly I do enjoy the discourse to a degree.

As far as the game goes...posters are correct in saying that the mothers do still earn money in banking and they can still sell collectibles. One way to off set the career advancements is when a career item becomes available in the store, buy it for her. Also, after she has stopped nursing the baby and can get back to her career, I encourage that and let the father do repairs, unload groceries, clean smudges, pick up socks and other non-career chores. This seems to keep them acceptably close in career advancements.

Also, check the happiness meter...while carrying the baby my VF mother has stayed elated. So...she is happy. We talk about social reflections in the game as though they are negative. The family is happy...I am confused that career and monetary gain seems to be so prioritized by some players. And some say that if the mother is not achieving this it is somehow wrong. Why?

She may not be earning as much but she is happy and enjoying a happy home and family. I am concerned that so much emphasis is being made on career, and happiness does not seem to be a factor.

While it is important to give impressive thought about social relections and gender equality in career advancement...I think that a mother temporarily setting aside career advancement so that she can nurture and nurse her baby for a couple of years should not be made into a bad thing.

That being said, as usual, remember it's a game and there are choices about having children.

And, for whatever it's worth, I love the idea of the Dad's holding and nurturing the children too...but more for the enrichment for the child and parent...not to benefit monetary career achievements.

Yes, I have seen the activity be "changing baby's diaper" (or similar wording) for her activity.

All I am bringing up is how over the other three VV games this was one area that seemed to get attention and a request that the parenting duties in the first two years of the baby's life when it has to be carried around be split between the the parents/genders so that the females were not all hit with the responsibility for early child care. I'm saying this was a request that has been ignored.

Gender equality in work and earning potential and career advancement is a hot button topic with many people. It has been a topic of request that this be addressed in the games - when they ask what we would like to see, one of the suggestions is something to help the women still be able to advance when carrying a child for that two year infancy. That request has been ignored. If it can't be divided between men and women equally with a single child, it sould be nice if there was at least a 50-50 chance of the father having to carry the child around for two years instead of defaulting to the mother automatically.



The father is elated as well. I am saying that in this day and age, both parents are taking responsibility for child rearing in the early infancy. When the designers asked for suggestions for the games, it was listed as a request for this after seeing the effect it had in the first game.

Why this matters to some players? You may have never had to face gender discrimination, if so, I am happy for you. But I not only grew up during the 70's watching women fight to be able to do some jobs. Watched while people called women who wanted to excell in a career all kinds of nasty names. Was denied jobs because I was a woman in my own life at least twice because I was a woman.

Again I am saying that the developers have ignored a request that was made as far back as VV2 to split the child care duties between parents so both could achieve equally.

Its a steryotype that is being perpetuated. That women take care of the infant children, and the men do not. That the woman has to give up career advancement while the men do not.

Yes, it is a game, but as this is an issue that was brought to the designers attention many years ago, it would have been nice if they included it into the game design for once.

Excellent clarification For whatever reason it has been requested and a random chance is a reasonable solution.

Bethlham - I think you said it better than any of us could have. I don't have a strong opinion either way either, but I do feel this has been blown out of proportion somewhere along the way and you have come along as the water and boiled it back down to the point. So thanks for that.

I agree. Seeing how I would believe this game appeals mostly to women I don't see why this request would be ignored. I am a female and the bread winner in my household and I have several other girlfriends that are as well. Bethlhams random change solution is completely reasonable.

My woman, since I've only got one so far, is two levels above her husband and has been ever since they got married. She doesn't work when she's nursing, but she does housework and fixes things, and maybe it's just in my game or I'm just noticing it more than I should, but it seems like when the woman is nursing, my guy works more often.

It is just a game.That is all it is.We dont play games the same as we live real life.There isa big difference between games and real life.I play games to have fun.I dont think about real life when i play games.I played the free trial and when i buy it,i dont care who carries the baby.I loved carrying my babies after i gave birth to them,in real life.

The makers didn't ignore anyone's request!!
I have read through nearly every single one of the suggestion posts for VV (with God and LDW as my witness), and you would not believe how much Arthur has worked to meet the many requests that were made. And every single thing you ask for takes a lot of coding. Some things are harder to implement than others.

Money and careers do not make a family. A family is made when people care about each other. In fact, in most of real life, money and careers can cause conflict between people.

As for the woman's ability to advance a mother's career, there are options. As it was even said here, you can buy the magazine for her career. She can help the family gain money by gathering the collectibles. You can have dad stop working during that time and help around the house, so that both can work on advancing their careers at the same time. There are plenty of options.

Wow, what a discussion. Different pays for the same job could have simply been different levels at the same time; I have a pair who have the same job and make the same money.

I don't think we can come to such a huge conclusion about things so soon after the release because there are so many personalities and makeups of our little people that the variables in gameplay are much more than we can possibly represent in such a short time.

Keep in mind also that the woman's desire for children and her likes and dislikes will impact her career and mom duties regardless of how much we interact. This is clearly evident in one of my families!

I have a woman whose 'Wants Children' field says "Maybe" and the man's field says "Definitely." They had 1 child and even though I have tried 'over the years' to have more, the mom seems more interested in advancing her career and is a Level 4 in her field. She far dominates the man in his career and the times I've tried to get them to have more children, it alternates between arguing about it and just nothing happening. This mom clearly has no issues with gender equality, she is far ahead of the game.

There are probably people who didn't think the man/woman equality thing was a necessary change to begin with and I, as a woman who has a successful career, am one of the ones who thought it was silly to make it such a big deal in a game. Having said that, I hope anyone reading this realizes there is no offense implied and no comments are directed at anyone in particular; we're all just different people and have to accept that things are different in a virtual game just as they are in the real world.

Gender equality might be a hot topic for some, but it isn't for all, and a game or it's forum is not the place for the subject to get too big; it's a game and it's about fun, we're here to have fun! There are forums for people who want to debate the subject, and there are real life organizations for active participation; that's where it belongs, IMO.

There is absolutely no way LDW could create a game that takes all of life's issues into consideration and market it as casual gameplay and if that aspect of LDWs games is gone, so is my interest in LDW. We are all different people from different walks of life, different cultures and countries, with different priorities. I say KUDOS to LDW for such real life actions in the game and ask that everyone remember that there is no way everyone will be happy all of the time.

That is by far more realistic than a perfectly balanced game where everything is hunky dory.

Remember, I come in peace.