It has vanished. I SWEAR it wasn't me.

I turned it off, due to the nearly constant nonsense that has been going on all weekend.

I was wondering the same thing too... LadyCFII KILLED THE SHOUTBOX FOR REAL. I guess it's for the best though.

Understandable.

There were a lot of people playing with matches in there. I'm glad it disappeared, fire is a horrible and destructive force.

That was Caffine pretending he/she was going to burn a forest or his/her house down. 0.0 I'm trying to work on a manga but I was also trying to keep up with the SB.

EDIT: Will the SB be coming back? Or must I do a real funerul for the SB then make a grave in paint?? (Not a joke)

We have asked dozens of times for people to respect the fact that visitors to LDW see the shoutbox first, and we'd like this site to present a positive image of LDW. The kind of nonsense that's been going on in the SB reflects badly on our community and causes a lot of complaints. These forums, are first, and foremost, supposed to support LDW's games and community.

Thank you, Lady- As the victim of a house fire where luckily we only lost all our possessions, it's not a subject to bandy about even in pretense. Please remember in the future that some people weren't/aren't as fortunate as we were. Thank you all.

That was only part of the problem, but it's certainly a valid point. Participants in the Shout Box need to understand that people from all nationalities, cultures, and backgrounds come here. It's not a private playground, but rather another means to support our community and allow people to get to know each other.

Oh. I enjoyed the shoutbox, but I guess LadyCFII is right.

I'm certain that the Shout Box will be back, but we need to make sure that everyone understands that it's not a substitute for private conversations using such things as instant messaging. I realize that it's a safe, easy place to chat, especially for the kids, since parents often don't allow them to use IM or chat rooms. However everyone, even people who are not even logged in, can see what's said there. And filling the Shout Box with junk blocks people who really want to ask a question or have an actual conversation.

The Shout Box gets out of hand far too often. I can't tell you how many people have complained about what goes on in the Shout Box, and the moderators can't be here 24 hours a day to keep things in line.

Not gonna say hurrah, not gonna say aw. the shout box may be gone, but it didn't have its glory it once had in its last days.

Gotta say, as entertaining as the SB could be, I'm not all that sad that it's gone...

I'll admit that it was mostly my fault about the fire thing, and I was way out of hand. I want to apologize to the ldw community about that mishap on my part and that I'm sorry to those who lost possessions/lives in a fire.

I kinda feel the same way. Even I thought the SB was becoming out of hand these days. And you can ask Barbara, I'm usually the king of forum mischief,

But I would go on, type "hi" and see people writing like long strings of random whatever. It was no longer a place to leisurely chat. And fire is no joking matter. So, it's gone for now, we'll live. I hope it will be back and better than ever.

I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, but I just have to do this.

HOORAY! The SB is gone! The SB is gone!

/celebration

I was getting sick of that thing. Most of the time the only people in there are bored lurkers who spam the SB or only say hello and goodbye. I'm not referring to anyone specifically. Just the attitude in the SB as a whole.

I'm not going to be too happy if/when it comes back, but I guess I can live with it.

Edit - Yes, sometimes I was one of those bored lurkers. I'm sorry.

i am mad. i will not come back to the till it returns. GOODBYE!

I will have to say the shout box used to be soooooo much
fun ! This forum used to be like a family . i miss
those days . But with people being naughty, i can see their
point. Everything in moderation.

Personally, I used to like visiting the shoutbox. There were usually some good conversations going on in there and it was easy to get a game question answered or at least a clue on where to find the answer in the forums.

But it did start to get out of hand lately and I understand why it was necessary to close it down. I hope that when/if it comes back, it will be appreciated more and not abused as much.

I feel the forum still is a family. We're just a family that has real life families too. Not to mention school and work.

I've been to a forum where it's practically a ghost town. It used to be a wonderful family, but it's become quieter since nobody really has anything to talk about there anymore.

Not to worry, LDW is far from a ghost town.

Mischief?? YOU??? No way!!

Well, we learned a lesson here today.
The Shoutbox is a privilege, not a right.We were lucky to have it at all, seeing as that most sites with the size of us don't We're all at fault (excluding mods, they hardly ever talk)here, even I am. All good things come to an end sometime,and so it was destined to be the Shoutbox's turn today.

I never really used but now the page seems emtpy without it.

Seems so barren without it. Well, I guess it's a lesson to be learned.

Sadly, if people would only learn to read & follow the RULES we would still have: Forum Games; The Shout Box; and Fan Fiction wouldn't be on full moderation. We did get Off Topics back, but we lost it for awhile also.

Is it permanent. Maybe you could give them one warning. But if they do it again, then delete it. PLEASE give us another chance!

Kayy, I'm quoting what LadyC said earlier in this thread:

Like it's gonna come back.Pshaw. It proably won't. I knew it was gonna happen, and if it does come back, it will come back next year, most likely, if at all, and I'm just fine with that.

Agh! What happened to the SB!?! That's a rhetorical question but still. I always miss the exciting stuff. Hmpf...I can't believe things got so out-of -hand that it would have to be closed. It's too bad.

I hope those responcible know what their errors were...if it was me I don't know about it *looks around nervously*. I hope to see it back at some point, I know I enjoyed seeing the chatter.

Sad. Hopefully the SB will be back soon.
And I'm sorry, if it was kind of my fault.

Once more deprived of something I like!!
I don't know what happened, (it was the middle of the night for me) but I feel something unfair to be punished because again 2 or 3 guys have gone too far.

Laurence? I'm sure this wasn't meant to "punish" anybody. We know that you, and most forum members do a good job of following the Rules.

Regrettably, some people aren't caring enough to follow the rules.

This of course presents a dilemma, because the staff then gets complaints from those who are trying to follow the rules.

It also puts LDW in a bad spot, when parent's come in to see if it's ok for their children to view this forum, and see that some people are breaking the rules.

Many of the problems we experience, like losing Forum Games; Off Topics; Fan Fiction etc etc etc could all be avoided, if people would only
[/size] READ & FOLLOW THE
RULES!

Which, by the way, happen to be posted at the very top of every single forum.

I agree that the forumers need to follow the rules.

But it does it!

I'm sorry, Laurence, that you feel you are being punished. We aren't punishing anyone - not even the people who contributed to the situation that caused its removal.

You have been very responsible and helpful here, and it's unfortunate that you've had to experience the temporary loss of something that was very enjoyable to you. It is a sad fact that, in almost every area of life, a few people can cause the loss of privileges for many people who have done nothing wrong.

I will explain everything more fully after we've had a chance to prepare specific Shout Box guidelines (beyond what is contained in the rules).

Could PM''s be sent to those who created the problem and clarify what was inappropiate? I just hope i wasn't part of it. if i was i would like to know because I have a tendency not to realize I'm apart of the problem intill someone stands right in front of me and tells me.

We will try to work this out the best way we can. Every time something like this happens, it takes a lot of time away from working on our games. People need to understand that we don't have an entire department dedicated to managing the forums, and it takes a lot of time to send individual PMs to people.

Attention all SB Users

I have created a shoutbox, with LadyCFII's permission, that we can all use while the LDW shoutbox is gone. The point of this SB is that it is not affiliated with LDW in any way. The only similarity is that it will have the same users. The URL is:

http://shout247.freeshoutbox.net

I will be appointing moderators who will be able to delete posts and ban users, which I don't think will be necessary. Please register your username by pressing the plus sign so there is no username faking. Enjoy. ALSO, the reasoning behind the name, Shout 24/7, is that we're all on here 24/7. So, enjoy

EDIT: I also suggest putting the shoutbox in a separate tab so you can be on the forums and the SB at the same time.

Good Job, Jazzo!

Good News, Jazzo! Thanks!

So Rock, do you have any idea where members could peruse the rules? teasing...again.

I am sorry for Laurence, and a few other members who were regular SB users. I know it can feel like a punishment. It can be frustrating that some peoples actions can affect so many. But, as Barbara said, this is prevelant throughout life. I have experianced it more times than I can count. What I try to do is realize that it is a consequence...not really a punishment. There is a slight difference between the two. Maybe thinking that the SB is 'under renovation' rather than thinking it is taken away could help.

I personally miss the 'life' it gave to the forum. Real time chatting, even if I wasn't participating. But, it will be back

Yes, that's a perfect way to think of it. The SB is under renovation, and it will be better than ever when it's back.

Well, that's good to know! Now you've got us waiting impatiently to see the changes!

The Shout Box will look the same, but I'm hoping to add an extra "box" above it with a link to some brief guidelines.

That's great LadyC!! It'll just make our forums a better place.

WOW! I must've missed something. Sorry that ive been off for awhile. But anyways, I think its good that the SB will be remade. Its for the best. I didnt see the rulebreakers, but im guessing they were being disrespectful.

When I clicked on the site, I saw the shoutbox first.
It made me want to join, because it looked like the people chatting like... idk. It seemed like they all knew each other really well, even though they'd never met.
It made me want to be a part of it.

Really? I never thought of that sorry.

Good idea, Barbara!
And thanks to let us have an "extra shoutbox" during this time (and thanks to Jazzo for making it, look at page 4)

so, will there be a preview page for the SB showing a percentage of when it will be done?

I hereby retract my statement.."I'm glad it's gone".. panic and shock can bring out the worst in me sometimes. I will truly be happy when the shout box comes back as long as we try to be more caring of other people's feelings. I've only used it maybe three times and mostly enjoyed reading the on-going discussions. Here's a toast to the forthcoming "New and Improved Shout Box". Cheers.

I'm going to do something that I rarely do here, so bear with me, because it's rather long-winded. I want to explain what we had hoped the Shout Box would be for our community, exactly why the Shout Box was removed, and what I'm working on in order to bring it back.

First, since there appear to still be some misconceptions about LDW as a company, I want to explain (for those who aren't that familiar with LDW) that we are a very tiny independent game studio, despite the appearance of our Web presence. Arthur, Carla and I do almost everything associated with the day-to-day work of making and supporting the games and keeping LDW running. We all work very hard, but we cannot (even with the gracious assistance of Gamey and Rockmower) watch everything that goes on here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, year after year.

We have a commitment to ourselves and our community to keep this a family-friendly site, and (unfortunately) it takes almost constant vigilance to accomplish that in today's world. When you add to that the diversity of our community - people from all countries, cultures, and life experiences - we have a huge challenge to try to maintain a fun, friendly forum that's also safe and enjoyable for people of all ages.

We had hoped that the Shout Box would be a place where members of our LDW community could do more than just talk about our games. We wanted the SB to be a place where people could get to know each other and us better (we think of everyone here as part of our LDW family). It would be nice to think of the SB as a little family room, where people could pull up a chair and their favorite beverage (mine's coffee) and talk about life and LDW games. It should be a place where newbies are welcomed into the family and everyone feels comfortable joining in the conversation. I've watched and joined in the conversations over the nearly two years since the new forum software was installed and the SB made its debut. I've grown to know and respect many of you very much.

Unfortunately, although that's how it started out, it didn't stay that way. I've watched as people who used to freely chat in the SB gradually grew quiet and withdrew altogether. At this point, I want to be careful, since I know that the SB is very popular with the younger members of the forum who love to play and be silly. That's what it is to be a kid. I was a kid once (still am, in many ways), and I have 3 young grandsons. I can be goofy and silly with the best of them. However, there's a time and place for everything, and I don't think the SB is the right place for that.

Over the last year or so, the SB has been taken over by the kind of banter that monopolizes the space and shuts others out. People who tried to ask a question or carry on a conversation were "drowned out" by such things as rustyrolls, RP games, boingy-boingy, biting and tackling each other, and various other things that would be rule violations if I were to mention them here. I have received many complaints about the SB, along with copies of the SB contents that point out the problems.

On an entirely personal note, many times I have felt a sense of betrayal as I've seen people I care about watching to see if I was logged on and making comments in the SB that it's OK to do "bad" stuff, as long as LadyCFII isn't on. I don't have to be visible to be watching. I am usually logged on to the forums from around 5:30am until after 9pm, whether you see me watching or not. I always have them open, even while I'm doing my other work. Even on weekends (I have a very understanding family).

Now, exactly why the SB was removed. As with most things, the actual removal was the result of a long process of decline in the nature of the SB activity, culminating with a "last straw" on a Sunday. I don't consider the following a breach of confidence, since the people involved in these conversations posted them publicly for everyone to see (and copy, if they want to). The following two little snippets demonstrate the kinds of things that caused the SB shutdown. The participants in these conversations were adults and children. I have removed all names in order to avoid (as best I can) embarrassing anyone, but the snippets are otherwise exactly as posted. Please know that I'm not picking on these particular people, since there have been many, many others who have engaged in similar stuff. These are just the two incidents that are closely associated with the SB shutdowns. The first snippet is from last April, when the SB was shut down for about 30 minutes. The second one is from Sunday.

From April 18th:

[x] AHHHHH!!!!! GET OFF OF ME!!!
[x] My friend (that dose not have an account on this site) said something really funny about the message!
[x] If you would like to know she said, "that was the most boring thing i have EVER heard! AND I LIKED IT!!!"
[x] (YUM! YUM! YUM!Oooh! Tiny toys! Picks up <removed> and <removed> and plays with them!)
[x] PUT ME DOWN RIGHT NOW!!!
[x] (OOOOH! TOY Talking! ME <removed>! WHO YOU?
[x] *Bites <removed>'s hand*
[x] *YOU?)
[x] (Doesn't feel anything!)
[x] I'M <removed> AND YOU PUT ME DOWN!
[x] I'M NOT A TOY!!! THATS IT YOU HIT THE SWITCH <removed>!!! HYAAAAAA!!!!! FEEL MY FURY!!! *takles <removed> as hard as possible*
[x] (Still feels nothing! Continues playing!)
[x] FEEL! MY! FURY! HYAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!<wbr>!!
[x] *morphs into a giant larger than <removed>* ooh, pretty toy! *picks <removed> up and throws him around*
[x] (Listens a bit and says NO WAY YOU NO DESTROY ME PLAY! ME LIKE PLAY WITH TOY!)
[x] (Grows larger!)
[x] *Grows larger*
[x] AHHH!!!!!! <removed> STOP I'M STILL TINY!!!
[x] THATS IT!! *grows as large as <removed>
[x] Look! trampoline! *points to <removed>* Tallyho!! *Jumps over <removed>, and falling over him*
[x] WAIT FOR ME!!! *Joins <removed> on the "trampoline"*
[x]
[x] SB's gone
[x] ????? ?????
[x] open a new tab and visit the forums again
[x] PM
[x] okay
[x] your right!
[x] [LadyCFII]
[x] THE SB IS GONE!!!

From Sunday:

[x] i want to bake my pie and burning my house down will make it cook faster
[x] *Facepalm*
[x] Bad Idear there.
[x] soda is my water. -w-
[x] Oh you poor Soul.
[x] lol!!!!! haha
[x] heyy guess wut!!
[x] hmmm burnt pie..
[x] How am I a poor soul for that? I just drin more soda then I do water on on hourly basis. XD
[x] * drink
[x] What?
[x] I still think you're a poor Soul. :\
[x] I just went to a forest and burned that -says as he lights pineneedles that will burn the entire forest-
[x] i might get pink highlights!!!
[x] Congrats.
[x] *screams at the top of his lungs ... YERP*
[x] -.- I is nots a poor soul. *eats cake L gave me* It IS good cake! XD
[x] ???
[x] I'd want Blue... or Green... or Purple. or Gold... or Red..
[x] NEOP, NP. NEEOOOP.
[x] <removed> check the message i gave you I was successful too!
[x] MOG!!!! NEEEOOPPP
[x] What message??
[x] Neop, Yerp Yerp Neop!!!
[x] I sent you a personal message
[x] neop neop neop! yerp neop neop yerp! yerp yerp neop!
[x] Yerrrpp!! Neop Yerp!!
[x] I don't see the flashy envelope of doom so I guess I didn't get the message.
[x] Neeop yerp? Yerp yerp neop yerp!
[x] Yerp?!


This kind of stuff creates a lot more work for LDW, and every time we have to deal with the aftermath of a problem, it takes us away from making the very games that are the reason for the existence of the forums. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent working on this latest issue instead of the new game that you all are clamoring for. Kind of ironic, actually.

So, where do we go from here? Well, ultimately that's up to everyone here. The SB doesn't have a built-in, automatic monitor that detects the kinds of things that I have just described. It's up to everyone here to help determine whether it stays or goes permanently into the annals of forum history. I'm working on a set of guidelines for the Shout Box, as well as a little box that will sit on top of the Shout Box that will contain a link to those guidelines. That (along with this marathon explanation from me) will help everyone understand what we would like the Shout Box to be.

I welcome comments and discussion, as well as comments on whether Jazzo's kind offer of a free non-LDW shout box should be continued indefinitely. It seems a perfect place for all-out goofiness, while allowing more rational discussions to take place in the forum SB. Thoughts?

I'd like it comes back like that and I hope it will! Let's try again...

Anyway, I understand and agree with you, Barbara.
I'm just sad and tired to see how it's easy to spoil the nice things! But let's continue to keep it nice!

Since this discussion has been opened for ideas, I would like to revisit a suggestion I made when I first became a moderator for this site. I had asked if it were possible to have 2 different shout boxes on the LDW site. There could be the regular SB on all forums except for one. Maybe in the Games or Off-topic forum there can be another SB for more playful conversation.

I do not agree with the content of the snippets shown. They are definitely inappropriate for a "E" rated site. Unfortunately, I have been consumed with finding work and have not been able to spend as much time on here as I would like to, but when you are in a state of panic over finances, that in itself can be all-consuming.

IF it were at all possible to run 2 different SB's on this one site, I do see it making the front end of the website cleaner. It would give a place for "CLEAN fun to happen away from the general public. As with most families who get together, you have the adults in one room, having mature conversations and you send "the kids" into the other room to be kids.

Now, as most people who know me can imaging, I would be in "the other room" as much if not more than I would be in the "living room". I like to horse around. I will admit that there was a time where I lead people down the RP road. It was fun and we all had a blast. I still get comments from time-to-time about the fun we had in a particular "game" we used to play. Even though I was never formally reprimanded, I finally stopped playing as I saw it taking over the SB and it soon took the sidelines. It would be nice if we did have a place here to let loose a little and forget about work or school or chores or in my case, right now, finances.

Now, for a bit more technical talk. I think that if there is not a button or command provided by the UBB software, a second SB could be accomplished. It may take rewriting the PHP script from the server itself and setting it up manually in the SQL database. There are also other chat programs out there that could be embedded into the forum if it is just not possible. As I am not an administrator but only a moderator, I do not know the ins and outs of the Software. The last time I saw the UBB software on a technical level, it was 4 years ago.

I do miss the SB. I know some do not care that it is gone. Some seem, judging by the comments, are even glad it is gone. I think that with the SB gone, the forum lost its personality. To me, the forum now is just another stagnant message board. I have visited this thread a few times since it was started and have written comments about this current chain of events, but never committed to them for one reason or another.

I would also like to express my thoughts on Jazzo's SB. It's a great idea and very ingenious of him to set something up like that. I give him high marks for that. I think that it is a great temporary fix for forumer to still communicate but I do not see it being a permanent one. The functionality in conjunction with the forum was a bit cumbersome. It didn't really flow like it does if it is in the forum itself. Even if we had a second SB in the Games section, it would be in the forum, we could play the games, even though I have only made 2 of them, and still be here, on the forum, keeping up with the shouts in there. And Jazzo, if you read this, I am not critisizing you in the least. I applaud your attempt. You are a proactive thinker. You say "Hmmm... it's broke, how can I fix it" instead of "Oh, it's broke, I think I will wait for someone to come along and fix it and meanwhile I think I'll just complain about it".

Oh, let me back up a bit here too. If there was a second shout box, it too would have to be governed by LDW policies. I am not suggesting a free-for-all, anything goes, type of SB. I am just suggesting it be a "playroom", separate from the "living room". Just one room in this mighty LDW house.

Wow, this is a difficult position the SB is in. It is very difficult to write a program or monitoring system for courtesy or rambunciousness. I think as a community we should all try to help each other not only with game questions but with community standards. Try not to interupt or shout over others, rough-housing can break something, take turns, share, sneaking when authority isn't looking isn't a great idea, are all examples we should follow as best we can.

I think teaching 'house rules' is a good idea. Maybe if there was a box that could be checked assuring rules had been read would help. I know this is common with many terms and aggreements. Maybe this could apply to the forum and SB.

Maybe a thread giving anonymous notice of complaints or violations could help.

I know I have experianced talking-over due to the timing of the SB posts appearing, though I don't think this was the case in the examples given.

I think the link to the rules close to the SB is a good idea but maybe a little sign reminding we are E-rated and to mind manners at the top would be good and obvious.

Maybe Gamey could be hired to monitor full-time, this would help on a couple of levels (btw, hang in there Gamey...it will get better)

I am excited for the outcome!

Oh, and Jazzo's non-LDW SB is a great idea. That was an awesome effort! But, no critism here, it is a little harder to manuver than the LDW SB. That is no fault of Jazzo's! He did the best he could with what he had to work with and I admire the initiative. Snaps to Jazzo!

This is an admirable thought, but it wouldn't solve the problem. I think Gamey and I both spend as much time here as we can, but even dull old men like us have some semblance of a life outside the forum. I really don't think he's willing to stay on here 24x7. Even he has to eat; sleep; and take a shower on occasion.

I like the idea of a second sb where things like rp's would be allowed (maybe even encouraged). I too must admit my transgressions and confess that I've participated in some of those which were quite fun. Still, I don't think that's the answer either.

I join in saluting Jazzo for his efforts. It was a very proactive temporary solution. However, like others, I looked at it, and decided it doesn't "flow" like the sb in here does.

The answer to the problem, lies in our ability to be mature (kind of hard for some people) and to make a conscientious effort to stay within the rules. Rule violations have been an ongoing problem that affects more than the sb. It has caused us to lose other areas temporarily as well. Examples are the Off Topics, and Fan Fiction sections.

It also caused us to permanently lose things like role play games and the SPCV. I share the frustration of many here. It does seem that the forum has become more restricted and less fun than when I joined. Still, I can directly attribute the added restrictions to what seems to have become my main rhetoric of late: PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES!

The rules don't ask anyone to be "perfect." We are all human and will make mistakes. That's not the problem. The problem is when we get carried away and forget to be courteous and thoughtful of others.

In closing, I'll paraphrase a statement I made in tips for posting fan fiction: If you would be embarrassed for your Mother; Preacher; Teacher or a Six year old child to read what you're saying, then it doesn't belong anywhere on these forums. This especially applies to the SB.

Yay for me

LOL

Thanks. I never expected it to be nearly as functional as the LDW SB. For the simple reason that it's external. And thank you guys for your kind compliments I really appreciate it.

WILL IT EVER COME BACK?

If you read this entire thread, you'll know what the plans are.

Here's just a couple snippets that stand out


I was also thinking about the SB, and forum in general. What about a little box like the leaderboards, etc. that reads "Welcome to the forums" or something like that, that has a link to a general overview of rules/standards. There could be another link that details the rules and standards.

So the box would link to generalities: Be nice, use search functions for questions, don't use or discuss cheats, use the SB like your mom priest teacher child moderator developer or law enforcement official is watching, E-rated, things like that. Then for details, in case they don't know what constitutes a cheat or E-rating or crime (like arson), they can link to a detailed list...like the ones that already exist

Just throwing out ideas

so far i like the idea of 2 SB'S. If you can't be crazy with your friends than what's the point. Not to day the fire was wrong and so is not including people because of games. I think there needs to be a place to be crazy to a safe extent.

I'm usually loggod on at a time where not very many people are logged on, a maximum of five on at any one time. And I've found the shout box confuzzling even then.

When I was first new here, I really loved using the sb because it was a lot easier than posting, and everyone seemed to have such cool conversations.

Now, I only use the sb about 50% of times when I'm online. Sometimes it's too 'crowded' and multiple conversations are taking place, and it's just too confusing. So I've now started posting and pm-ing more often. And the other problem is that some convos are too random to join in.

But there is a difference between totally random and in-joke-y, and just plain unsociable. Lady's examples definitely show that. I think that if anyone says something unacceptable, and someone has a screenie to prove it, then I think that the person who said it should be given a 24-hour ban. Then if they do it again, 48 hours, and so on. Like Lady said, the sb should be about having fun conversations with people all over the world, but not a place for being rude.

Having said all this, I miss the sb dearly, and I hope it can be put back on asap

Did you see the Shoutbox That Jazzo has created, Casza?

It seems quiet on the forum now that the Shoutbox is gone.

Yes, but the temporary one is nice. Perhaps that could serve as a second, more rambunctious SB?

I wanted to post sooner, but this took me several days to write. This is a little hard for me because I really, really, really love the Shout Box.

My first day on the forum, I talked in the Shout Box to a few people, who made quite an impression on me. Because of those moments I loved the atmosphere here so much, that I stuck around, read A LOT of posts, and felt like I was becoming part of something bigger than me. But I didn't talk in the shout box again for another year.

Each time I came here (I rarely logged in back then), I read some of what was happening in the shout box. As VV3 got closer to it's release, I decided to enter the SB to ask about it. I was answered quickly, and then the shouters went back to their conversation. I was not bothered. Just because I had been reading about them for almost a year, didn't mean that they should feel like they had to talk to me.

When I became a shouter, my biggest worry was (and still is) whether what I said in the shout box was mattering to someone else reading at that very moment. How many times have you shouters read me say, "There are such and such number of invisible and anonymous users online right now able to read what you just wrote..."? Of course, that didn't stop me from playing from time to time. Why? Because as a reader, I enjoyed the playful banter as well. Just being honest.


I want to say that it has been an incredible joy to me to be able to interact with people from all over the world, as well as right here in my own part of the world, about the game that has brought me so much happiness.

At the same time, I will admit that I didn't like being yelled at in the Shout Box when someone thought I was wrong in my thinking. It made me very uncomfortable when a newbie would ask a question but I couldn't type fast enough around the other shouters in order to answer him or her. Rough-housing often made me feel out of place, even if I acknowledged it was going on while I was in the SB.

As I said before, I know I'm not innocent. I've had my share of pie-throwing antics, and sugar-free-cookie free-for-alls. But I have also been on the responsible side, warning those who were messing around that they needed to stop. I have tried to help others who were close to being banned to change their ways. And, sadly, I have also been witness to the banning of certain SB trouble-makers.

After the many meaningful posts were added to this thread, I wondered why certain shouters didn't care whether the Shout Box came back, and even moreso, why more who enjoy the Shout Box haven't come forward to say so.


I had in the past, requested that a list of Shout Box rules, or a link to them, be posted near the Shout Box. Although the rules are easy to find at the top of each forum, they are not the first thing that Newbies see (and sometimes those of us who have been here awhile need to be reminded). Like my experience, many who sign up, first see a moving box where people are communicating and find it much more engaging than that first thread. But at that point, the only rules a brand new Newbie has seen so far are listed (very clearly I might add) at the top of their registration page with a check box for agreement:



But I see now that perhaps it needs to go a step further than just posting the rules. If the problem is that only a few shouters are breaking the rules, then shouldn't we simply keep just those forumers out of the Shout Box? (and yes, I understand that could mean me too.) Couldn't there be a separate registration for the Shout Box? And if you break the Shout Box rules, you are suspended from being able to shout. Serious violators would be banned from the forum as always.
It just seems to me like it would teach a good lesson to a trouble-maker (they are able to read the SB but not be able to enter it), while not interrupting the good forumers from continuing their conversation.

Then the forum doesn't become static. Good shouters would warn Newbies who blatantly disregard the agreement they just checked off in registration, as well as regulars who get carried away, that they could be suspended from the SB, indefinitely if necessary.


I have so much more on my mind, but that's all I have to say for now.

I'm going to intrude in LadyCFII's department (and hope I get this right! ) At the current time, there are 2 active moderators (myself and Gamemastr1) & 1 Administrator (LadyCFII) who are actively involved in "riding herd" on the forum. Arthur & Carla are quite busy at the moment (mostly trying to develop the new game and run the company!) LadyCFII besides trying to run the forum, is also involved in developing the new game.

Now while Gamey & I are willing to spend as much time here as our lives will allow, We aren't "full time" staff and do this on a volunteer basis. That leaves the majority of the burden on poor LadyCFII's already burdened shoulders. She is the only one of us three with the power to do more than politely correct those who break the rules. Gamey & I can edit/move/remove posts that are inappropriate in the forum, but we can't (and probably shouldn't) actually ban rule breakers. I'm sure that if we find need to recommend such an action, it would be carefully reviewed and likely carried out.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that anytime a person, or group of persons, starts misbehaving it puts additional workload on the people who try to keep the forum fun; safe; and friendly for all. It has a very real impact on development of the games we love so much, because if they are in here fixing our misbehavior, then they can't work on the new games.

I don't know if it is even technically feasible to restrict people from just one area, such as the sb, but that isn't the answer anyway. I also am having doubts about the ability (and wisdom) of having a second sb. The one Jazzo was kind enough to put up can act as a place for the "rowdy" crowd to go to if they so desire, just as the fan fiction site run by KittenAngel2001 acts as a repository for those who want to write more mature stories than we allow.

While those "alternate" sites can, and do, provide an outlet for material we can't allow, they still aren't the real answer to the problem here. The only real answer is one I've harped on over and over again. (anyone want to guess what that might be?)

Only by being good forum citizens, and following the rules, can we keep this a fun; clean; safe environment for ALL our members.

Okay, my turn to step up on the soapbox. (Though I'm sure I'll not be as eloquent as those who have posted before.)

As one who has gotten far over the top in the SB and gotten herself in trouble many a time over the year and some months I've been here, I know how easy it is to overdo things.

I have noticed (And this has been pointed out before, I think) that the board seems very quiet since the removal of the Shout Box. Even my visits have become short checks for new posts in select topics/sections.
Even when I didn't talk in the shout box at all, I stayed on the site for quite a while at a time. I know I found the SB quite entertaining to read at times, though I myself did not participate.

All in all, I think it was a good move on the part of the administration to take away the Shout Box and show everyone (including myself) that it was a privilege, not a right.

I agree whole-heartedly with Rockmower and HappyPlayer on the facts that the rules need to be followed and that even those of us who have been on the site for an extended period of time need reminders now and again... and again.

I know from experience that the active conversation the SB provided could serve to encourage and help other forumers. I think I've helped others in the past, and I know that on occasions something will strike me and I'll come away from it with a different outlook on a situation.

I have one final thing to say. When it comes right down to it, I am neutral on the subject of extra SBs/off-site SBs/etc.
C'est la vie.

My turn ...

Let me say at the outset that I don't use the Shout Box, so have no interest personally in its return.

I would however mention that someone, particularly a newbie, whose VV tribe is dying would much prefer to mention their problem in the SB and get an immediate reply than post in the main forum, and for all they know not get a reply until several hours later, when it would be too late.

THAT is exactly what it was intended for! Not to post "spoilers", but to give advice or point the person to the right place for advice. The side benefit of allowing community interaction in real time, is what got it into trouble.

My SB is just as E-Rated as the former LDW SB. It will not be a place for people to go crazy. Let me just make that clear.

Good news, everyone! Arthur, Carla and I have discussed just about everything you can imagine related to the forums, and we are going to bring back the Shout Box soon (we're aiming for Monday).

We are putting the finishing touches on some new rules specifically governing the Shout Box, which will be readily accessible from a box directly above the Shout Box. They will be available sometime today, so that everyone will have a chance to see them before the SB makes its comeback. We are counting on everyone here to follow the rules carefully at all times. I have been very pleased with how everyone has been careful with dragcave stuff lately, so I know that you won't let us down in the Shout Box, either.

We won't be adding a second shout box for game-playing, since we have decided that we want to go back to our primary purpose for the forums, which is to provide a place to discuss and support our games, as well as foster a friendly environment in which to accomplish that purpose. It's simply not our purpose to provide a substitute for general chat rooms or instant messaging. I want to also reassure people that Off-Topic and Fan Fiction will remain, with the current procedures that have been established for them, as long as they are not abused.

We think that, overall, this is the best solution, which will help LDW focus on bringing you great games and support the real reason that the forums exist.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

In preparation for the return of the Shout Box, I have created the post containing the new forum rules. I have also created a new box that contains a link to the Shout Box rules and put it where the Shout Box used to be. When the Shout Box returns on Monday, it will be directly under that new box.

Everyone should read and become familiar with the rules before Monday, if possible, and definitely before jumping back into the Shout Box. Discussion about the new rules is welcome here, too.

I'm going to throw a couple of things out there even though I'm not a user of the shout box.

Is there some way before someone/anyone uses the new and improved shoutbox for the first time that they have to read the rules?

Do you think that a new user accessing the SB for the first time must check off "I agree" before they get to the SB?

I don't know how hard this would be to implement but I know humans and we tend not to read the directions/instructions on many things because we're in too much of a hurry to play.

There is a check box that's used to indicate that a new member has read some (admittedly inadequate) rules before they can complete their registration and use the forums. Once that's accomplished, all public areas of the forum are available to every registered member, including the Shout Box.

At least now, with the addition of the new "rules box" the rules are easily accessible for everyone. We must rely on voluntary compliance and corrective action when violations occur.

Thank you Lady!

And, again, I'd like to apologize for my disruptive behavior.

I did use the shout box, only say one or twice when I saw an interesting conversation that was up my street that brought back some memories a long time ago. Otherwise I did not like to interupt a conversation that went on.

Yaaaaay!!! The sb is coming back

Just a quick question: are we still allowed to talk about random stuff (as long as it follows the rules that Lady posted), or does it have to be ldw related?

I'm pretty sure random, but I'm not positive on that...

I wouldn't exactly call it random, since that carries with it a connotation of the kinds of things that shut down the SB. I would say that you can talk about real things in your life that aren't related to LDW games - things like school, family, friends, cars, travel, hobbies - you get the idea. No "random shouting" or other disruptive stuff. It has to fit in the flow of normal conversation.

Can we get a clarification on what the rules mean by "Role Playing" please? Thank you.

Role-playing was only one example of the kinds of SB "games" that are prohibited. If it monopolizes the shout box and/or can be categorized as a game, it doesn't belong in the SB. Pie-throwing, boingy-boingy, rolling, putting cacti everywhere, random nonsense, and deliberate disruptions are also rule violations.

What we want to make sure that people understand is that the SB is the first thing people see when they come here, and the contents of the SB reflect directly on LDW as a company. We want that impression to be a good one that doesn't reflect mayhem and chaos.

Yes, that one is hard for me because I have accidentally chased BW 'up a tree' or 'hid cake on Mars' because Rusty won't go to Mars...it's silly, I know, but kinda funny also. Is this kind of talk okay if it doesn't interupt, over-talk, ignore others and it doesn't get rambuncious? Or should it be avoided all together?

It would be best to avoid it altogether to stay on the safe side. We're really trying to keep the forums about our games and the fun and community derived from them. I've had thousands of very enjoyable conversations without throwing a single pie!

Ok thanks for clarifying that I was just wondering if it had to be all about ldw. I like talking about school etc and I am not a fan of when people 'throw pies at each other'. That is when I don't join in sb conversations.
And if people want to 'throw pies' at each other, can't they just pm it? Just an idea...

I agree, definitely... The leaving of the SB is killing me. Since I don't post that much and prefer to just read, the SB is pretty much where I spend much of my time. And I have to admit, I get "crazy" at times and just shout something random. :P I guess Jazzo's SB will have to do for now.

what about things like * eating cookie* Instead of actually saying I'm eating a cookie. Is that cool?

I think by now, it has been pretty well spelled out what will and won't be tolerated in the SB. If you haven't read the new post by LadyCFII on the portal page, you need to do so asap.

I see no reason one would need to explain they are "eating xxxx" but, no, that wouldn't in its self be a rule violation.

Things like "I got an A in math" or I just started a new tribe in VV1 etc are examples of what is allowed.

Things like throwing stuff at someone or random shouting stuff like boingy boingy etc, will not be allowed.

If you really are eating a cookie (cake; pie; meatloaf etc) and it's really good (or nasty) you could say that. If on the other hand, people are talking about something and you randomly shout
*eating cookie* or *jumping on bed* etc, that would NOT be allowed.

Whoops

But I liked the *tea-time parties* on the top of the Great Tree!
Of course it must not degenerate into a *throwing-pie party*!!
Here is the difficulty and where peoples have to behave responsibly!

We at LDW have decided that we don't want that kind of thing in the SB, because of the effect it has on everyone (visitors, members, and LDW). The problem is that the moment somebody shouts something random, the chaos begins and grows. It's disruptive, drives people away from the SB and even our site, and takes too much time and effort to manage. We want people to have fun, but in a positive, real-life way.

If it starts to be a problem again when the SB comes back, we will have to make some tough choices, which I'm sure nobody wants.

So, bye-bye to the *tea-time parties* on the top of the Great Tree!

I understand and I think it's the best!!

I just want to add to this thread. I myself have tried to say hello in the Shout box a few times. But really felt like i was intruding. So, i stopped. And, to be honest i kinda felt badly. I had no idea what was going on and wasn't interested because it looked like gibberish. Sorry, that's just my experience.

Aw, MM, you weren't intruding! It was nice having you in the SB!

The more the merrier!

I just don't understand the concept of PMing someone to throw a pie, etc. IMHO, the forums belong to LDW and so does the server that holds all of this including the PMs. I don't want to start having problems getting into the forums because the server is filled up with stupid nonsense. Shouldn't the users who want to throw pies, etc. use their own email or another source?

Some users don't want their email/IM ID to be plastered all over the forums...

In fact, the PMs are causing a problem for forums backups, among other things. If people are using PMs for private games, they need to be deleting them regularly.

I find some PMs quite annoying. I try to stay in them but with the constant NONSENSE posts, I'm unable to stay. For example, if a PM is about something, leave it to that.

The problem is that a PM isn't really deleted until the last person deletes it, so I suspect that a lot of very large PMs are still in people's message boxes.

Honestly, I wouldn't miss it much, though I've been away awhile. This place is primarily a forum, with a shoutbox as backup, not a shoutbox with a forum. It's a cute toy but if I really want to chat, I'll boot up mIRC rather than log in here.

Whats a boingy?

It's something that people have said a lot in the shout box, usually in all caps.

Caps I think I'm a bit dim on that subject

Oh I just realised capital letters. It take me 3 hours later to realised now

SB means *a swear word* in Chinese... but nevermind...

I don't think we needed to know that Lailai...

I'm glad the SB is coming back new and improved! I love all the ideas about an LDW family, and I hope with these new rules around we can make it work.

One suggestion I have for those who enjoy role playing (and I do sometimes) is this. Meet here in our sb, then if someone wants to start a role play, the participants could move to Jazzo's sb.

I've looked at his sb, and it is perfectly functional, just not as convenient since you have to open it in a separate tab or screen. For those with large monitors, you could do a split screen and watch both at the same time, but it doesn't work as well on smaller monitors.

and also, Lady, I read the shoutbox rules and the last one kind of had me stuck. Could you define the role-playing games that are played in the SB? I think you mean the ones like this for example:

// goes to eat a cherry cake//

then someone else might put:

// snatches cake of becca//

Is that the role-playing behavior you mean?

There are several posts discussing that very thing starting here. Make sure you read all three posts from me to get all of the information that was posted.

I tried saying Hello in the shout box but it made my computer chash. I was only writing and noticed that it was on caps so before I was going to send it I tried to delete the words, so I could put it in lower key then an error report popup came and I knew I must of done something wrong.

I restarted my computer to see if it would slove the problem. I left it for an hour, then tried again to say 'Hello' I just writen up to 'Hel..' and before I could type the rest of the word the same thing happened again. I am wondering if I might have done something wrong? I hope not!!!

PS. I just said hello so it must have been a technicul problem on my pc phoee

The crash was likely caused by a problem with your browser, since the Shout Box works fine for everyone else. If you have another browser installed, you might try using a different browser. If not, you may need to review your browser settings or reinstall it.

Thank you LadyCffii Its fine now I think I might have had too many windows open so I closed the windows not needed as it said at the bottom virtul windows too low some pragrammes could be denighed or not work. Now it works fine.

The above are various quotes from LadyCFII in this thread, about the Shout Box. Unfortunately, although these posts were made almost 2 years ago, they are still very very valid. This post is intended to make everyone aware that the Shout Box is a privilege, not a right, and it has been removed previously. The Shout Box has been getting out of hand recently, and if it continues, it may be removed again.

Thank you for your time, and if you have any questions, let me know.

~Heather

Sorry if I have ever caused any trouble or complaints in the SB. I'll make sure that in the future that I make sure other Island-goers follow the rules. I hope I didn't scare future members or current members with my bad spelling