Again, nobody is trying to make perfect villagers. I'm simply curious about the pattern of selection in the game, while others are just curious about how to get all blondes, or all red heads or create a fav villager they haven't seen in a while No one meant to upset anyone.

Exactly pumpkin! Like I already said in my original reply, there is no 'perfect'.

By trying out different pairs of people to breed, it's just interesting to see what comes out, and to make the game your own, and most importantly - to have funnnnnn!

And in haveing your fun don't you feel the least bit obsessed with it? Like I meant it is a very sensitive subject for some children to feel obsessed with looks and the such....

It is just my personal opinion that we should not encourage this behavior for fear we may have some here who DO obsess with looks and the like.

As for the "fun" aspect I feel as though this is a control issue, you feel as though you need to control the looks of your villagers. Then go ahead and control them, I just put out my opinion here

Poster: elizabeths184:

"Like I already said in my original reply, there is no 'perfect'."

Oh but that's what you really are looking for, a perfect game to your perfection. There can be a fine line between perfection and fun for some children and adults that is all I am saying here.

poster:KA


and in having your fun dont you feel the least bit obsessed with it? Like i meant it is a very sesitive subject for some children to feel obsessed with looks and the such...


do you mean that it is very useful?


i like this topic and it is useful i think, and you have a good job at doing it. (to the owner of this topic(i forgot the name))


poster:elizabeths184


like i said in my original reply, there is no 'perfect'.


huh?!? they are not perfect, but beautiful instead. also ugly villagers are not unperfect. pumpkin and elizabeths184 you both are right, there is no perfect but also no unperfect.

I don't think that's it, at all. At least, not for me. I think the main point here is that some people cannot get out of the brown-hair rut. I had a terrible time getting blonds in VV3 until I found this, because the hair color scale that leads up to blond is a little misleading. Some people closer to blond on the hair-color scale are not 'more blond' than those further away.

Knowing the system that's used, and what order the heads are in as the game considers it, are the only way I began to effectively sort out my tribes by hair color.

I do understand what you're saying though KittenAngel. You're just worried someone will take this the wrong way and let this type of thinking effect their own self esteem, and I appreciate that, but I assure you that control and perfection are not what we are talking about in this thread.

I myself "marry" my villagers off and let what little ones come that will without worrying what they look like, but as Lurkily said, the trend will always favour the more common brown haired villagers, so I think its interesting that complexity figured out the mechanics (or is trying to) behind how the genetics work. Thats all. But as I said, I do appreciate what you are saying.

Of course it's a control issue, otherwise why go to such length to achieve having blond babes? However, if that's what some of you wish to do, it's really none of my business! I just wouldn't want it becoming a permanent part built into VV4.

Hang on a minute, I think this is spiralling out of control a little bit....

I have played all the VVs a lot of times. That means that I know how all the puzzles end, what the collectibles look like, which stuff to buy first so they all don't die from no food......so I need ways to keep me interested every time I play, to play the game differently and not just go through the motions.

I have done the marrying off thing, keeping track of family trees - I love that, seeing generations of people living together, and trying to get the chief to be from the same family.

Like I said in my original, original post :P, all that's happening is brown + brown = brown, blonde + blonde = blonde, I never said I was trying to achieve 'perfection', or actually trying to achieve Anything in fact. All I'm doing is putting people together and see who comes out in the end.

I also agree with Lurkily, sometimes you can end up with a tribe of all the same men and women because they have a more likely combination (the "somewhere in the middle" people on the averages scale), I do like to have a varied tribe with lots of different people.

I don't see why people are now saying things about control issues, or self esteem issues (?!!!), it's Just A Game to me, I have fun with it and I will continue to have fun with it because I think it's cute, and different every time even after the umpteenth time. I don't think one colour hair is better than another, I don't have any preference for certain villagers per se, I think they're all as cute as each other! (even the one I called ugly hehehe!)

I'll say it again, a game forum isn't really the place for people's issues with genetics in the real world. These are pixellated characters, not real people, and if you think about it really and truly - the "genetics" thing on Virtual Villagers, is really an exercise in mathematics rather than genetic engineering, control or self esteem!

Because I want a challenge. The puzzles in the game run out; so the challenge I set for myself was to make a black/brown haired tribe into blonds. You yourself spoke of how much you liked the glitch that 'unsolved' your puzzles, because it gave you something to do; making my brown-haired tribe blond gives me something to do. Without this information, such a task would take an age and a half, and would rely almost entirely on the use of the mutant hair colors, since the shades of brown or red are not always lined up on the chart in order of their hue. (those not bearing a relation to either parent)



What I can't understand, is the connection between being able to breed for hair color, and self-esteem issues. The bottom line is , one: if you don't like it, you can ignore it. I didn't even know it existed until these forums. Two: Anybody with a self-esteem issue will project it onto anything they like, without help from us. And any self-esteem issues caused by VV Genetics is just that - it's somebody who already has an issue, projecting the problem onto something totally harmless.

VV is not a fashion magazine, and it's not MTV, and it's not a Victoria's Secret catalog. None of these villagers even looks human, except in the most abstract sense. The most flattering thing I can say about any one of the villagers is that they have a nice dress or hair style.

I'm going to stop right here -- because the very concept that a genetic system in VV could possibly cause the kinds of problems with self-esteem that stick-thin fasion models cause is so absurd to me that I could rant for pages if I didn't cut it short.

sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleeping some more...
Like I said from the beginning, I wouldn't want it becoming a permanent part built into VV4.

Lurkily: whole heartedly agree!

NO way my friend, I never said anything of the sort. Here is what I did say:
I no nothin', but I'd appreciate a bunch more self-esteem, one can never have too much.
Yea, see how easy a feather turns into five blon.. oops, I mean, turns into five feathered CHICKS.

You're right - I remembered Tuna's statement on the subject, of an tribe with exhausted puzzles having something to do again; since what he was saying was so similar to what you were saying, I mixed the two up.

Nevertheless, you can't deny the point I'm trying to make. Puzzles and Awards run out, leaving you nothing to do but play Sim Villager in a game that isn't a simulation; unless you intend to do nothing but train villagers and watch them dance secret dances, you have to find and set your own goals to accomplish. Mine was sorting three tribes by hair color. CFII has a goal of making 52 children into JoATs by unpausing the game only to teach kids with the chief. Other people may set themselves other tasks.

You have a point that genetics can have a bad effect on children with poor self-esteem; but from this argument, I can also point out that a lack of minorities or disabled people makes this game harmful to the self-esteem of minorities. Which is an obviously absurd argument. The bottom line is that any harmless thing can look harmful from a certain point of view. We should be focusing on the things in this world which are obviously harmful - hate, prejudice, intolerance - before we dicker about things that are accidental, and may not even be causing harm, like whether it's legal to display the Ten Commandments in a courtroom.

I truly think this is really spiraling out of control! Can we not all agree to disagree?

That's happens.
I don't recall denying any of the above! No need to explain you actions to me, just GO for it. Sorry, I am a bit lost... None of which you write about rings any bells with me. TOO much input for my brain to compute! ENOUGH SAID on that SUBJECT.

I agree wholeheartedly! I do, I don't, I think I do, for sure I do!

I think the point that I'm making is twofold: First, challenging yourself with the genetics is not a control issue unless you make it a control issue. Second, there's nothing harmful to self-esteem about the genetics in VV2 and VV3. Your earlier posts seemed to imply that having these things in the game was not just something you didn't want to see, but something that was actually unhealthy.

I think your digging yourself into a very deep hole, or perhaps it's lack of sleep! sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-sleep-SLEEPING.

Lurkily, I suggest you drop it. Once "Won't you please think of the children!" gets invoked over something this silly, it's time to just shake your head, roll your eyes, and walk away.

So let me set this right, you guys are argueing about how people play their games after they complete everything right? Or wrong? Or are you saying that how we handle the genetics of the villagers are?
cause if it's the second, well, I did had a brown/black heads tribe, so i decided to turn them into blonds. Luckily, a misfit was born blond and one of his many children were blond. And the guy's children helped me turn the tirbe multicolered.
In conclusion, I just guess it's fun to change the way your villagers run if you're done with the big stuff. right now, I'm trying to change their clothes and run on a schedule........

They're arguing about whether it's moral to put some thought into which two villagers should have children together. With the implication that trying to get the game to generate a specific type of villager is immoral, because you are discriminating against villagers that you think are ugly. And this may make some children have low self esteem because it will reinforce the idea that only pretty people should be allowed to live.

Or something like that. My brain kind of blocked out most of the nonsense.

And now I will go back to my Sims 2, where I'm currently giving out free trips to the plastic surgery machine to all the ugly people.

NO.
That's terrific, glad to hear you're having fun! Have a great weekend too.

NO, that NOT it either!
Then don't try and explain something you are not sure about, that's of no benefit to anyone!

The arguments in this thread are so convoluted and make so little sense, that the average person can't make heads or tails out of it.

Perhaps someone would care to explain, using very small words and very simple sentences, exactly how breeding villagers for looks is likely to affect a real person in real life.

Better yet, take each of the statements from my summary and debunk each one using quotes from the rest of this thread. Because I can sure find quotes to support each and every single one of them.

Yes, the discussion sure did spin out of control. People went on the defence immediately, explaining why they did whatever they did to their game. It's really none of my business what others do with or to their games.

My concern was; That if genetics entered into the game, meaning, becomes a built-in-feature in a possible VV4 sequel, I'd stop buying the games. I went on to say; We have enough of that in the real world. I could care less with whom my virtual villager got PG, as long as the game is entertaining. Any one wanting a perfect 10 in life or in a game, should do so at their own expense.

So there you have it, now go figure how it turned into a never-ending-rant.

[SNIP]

The part that confounds me is the "expense" part. What is it that happens when you go for a "perfect 10" as you call it? Even assuming there was one ideal villager, and a player wanted the whole tribe to look like that one villager, what exactly is the "expense" that the player will pay? The whole thing sounds so paranoid, so extreme, that it just completely boggles the mind.

swedane: "genetics" (NOT genetics, just fake, computer generated genetics in fact) HAVE already been a built-in feature of the game, of both VV2 and VV3, whether you have noticed or not!!

It is JUST the formula the program uses to determine which character head will come up on screen, when one character head gets with another character head.

This formula has been governing character heads in two games now, and if the first poster on the thread about "genetics" hadn't brought up the fact that they'd worked out the formula, you wouldn't have even thought twice about it.

If you don't want to buy the next game, fine, just remember that you have already played and liked two other games that involved the very thing that you Think you oppose.

Really and truly it's an insignificant thing in the wider game.

I am NOT writing about monetary expenses!

Words to play with:
Pursuing one's own happiness at the "expense" of others.
The war on terror expands at "expense" of Human Rights.

Recommended Reading: "Harmonizing" Plato.

Of course you're not. Duh. I asked you to define what calamity you think will befall the player, which is why the word was in quotes.

Since you included "Pursuing one's own happiness at the "expense" of others." in your explanation, please explain how breeding villagers will hurt other people. Because it appears we have now gone from it hurting the player to it hurting unknown numbers of innocent bystanders.

i also agree!

NONE what so ever, but do explain!


We have? Who's we? And how so?

That's my question to you, actually. You keep avoiding answering it. Why is that?

You seem to feel very strongly about this. I'm just asking you to please put it into words. I'm curious about what exactly you think will happen to a player who goes for a "perfect 10" in the game, or breeds for a certain hair color. Clearly you feel that some truly awful thing will happen. But what?



I'm confused by the idea of some undefined calamity hanging over all of our heads, just because we have figured out that villager head 4 and villager head 6 will produce villager head 5.

Ok people please drop it and agree to disagree??? I am personally getting tired of having to come back to this subject only to have you guys arguing, I got enough of that here in RL! Your opinions were heard and now it seems as though you are cramming it down our throats! Please stop.

I imagine a lot of people weren't too thrilled to have a perfectly good thread derailed by strange rants that implied impending doom.

Kitten, no offense, but you seem to be very quick to tell people to stop talking about things you don't like. You're the one who said that we shouldn't talk about genetics at all out of "fear" that someone will be harmed by it. And now this, too? Are your opinions the only ones allowed to be crammed down throats?

I've been waiting for a mod to come lock this, because it's head over heals more ridiculous that other threads that were locked in half the time. However, unless you have become a mod and I missed it, I think we should leave the happy task of killing this thread to one of the lucky persons who hold that position.

Wow. A lot happened. I'll put a summary at the top, since many people don't read long posts:

Since all our assertions have been denied, we're obviously misunderstanding what Swedane has tried to say. I don't think he's saying he doesn't want the system present in the game, just that he doesn't want to have to use it to complete all the tasks in the game. (Puzzles, achievements, awards, etc.)

What am I arguing about? I simply perceived Swedane to be saying that allowing players to use genetics to try and get the 'perfect' villager is harmful to self-esteem, in the same way fashion magazines, which portray only stick-thin models, (Or well-built, in a man's case) can be harmful to a normally-proportioned healthy person's self esteem. I assumed this because he agreed with Kitten who said that she thought Swedane was talking about the "pressure in real life to look perfect".

Since Swedane is disagreeing with everything asserting that he felt this way, I can only assume I'm mistaken, and I apologize, although I assure you Swedane that your comments were misleading, if that's not what you were trying to say. I admit to feeling a little irked. I think that not being able to understand what you're trying to say is the reason that everybody's assuming you're saying something that you apparently are not.

I apologize to Kitten and others who feel that it's being crammed down their throats; I had intended to wrap up my argument after the last post, only a little less than 24 hours ago, but it seems like other people have ideas of their own to propound.

To make it clear, Swedane apparently wasn't saying what I thought he was saying - and wasn't saying what others think he was saying. (I haven't read all of those arguments, since it seems like a waste of time when he's already denied their accuracy) So there isn't a discussion to be had here.

I think in the end, Swedane is only saying that he doesn't like to be controlling with his villagers, hence why he wouldn't like genetics being a part of VV4; I assume that he means that he doesn't want genetics being a part of the Puzzles, Awards, or Accomplishments, since that would force him to utilize genetics, and be controlling, to achieve them all, and force him to play a way he doesn't like to play.

I don't even know why I'm here, since not only do genetics in VV not interest me, but I wasn't even interested in the original thread. My villager heads are edited. They're completely mixed up as a result, with several duplicates of my faves. No point trying to breed for anything in that mess.

I just find irrational arguments fascinating, and this thread was full of them.

The odd thing about Swedane is that he has replied with denial to anyone who has attempted to pinpoint what exactly he means. So we know something about genetics is apparently very, very bad, but not why he thinks so. That is what makes it so fascinating to argue about. Like you said, Lurkily, not being able to understand what in the world he means is why this thing keeps going on and on.

I mean, I asked what was so bad about breeding for looks, and he said, basically, "nothing is bad about it, but you'd be doing it at your own expense." LOL!!!

You know, at first I thought this might be a race thing, since "blonde" got thrown around so much. But I don't think that's it. Then I thought it might be an inbreeding thing, except in reverse (as in, don't make me stop inbreeding if I want to). Basically, I have no idea, even after listening to all this ranting.

You're right, Lurkily! Except for a one minor detail. He's a SHE!

Okey, dokey. I think this one has gone on long enough. I think it's time to lock it before it gets even worse.