The controversy over pixilated procreation is getting quite high, so I ask.."What are some possible solutions to this?"

I am not asking if it is right or wrong, ethical, moral, etc...rather, what can the developers do to resolve it?

It has not been an issue for me since I found the villagers suffer no ill-effects due to the intitial small gene pool but the ongoing talk about inbreeding and kissing cousins, 10 year olds and moms is starting to freak me out! Sorry for being squimish but...enough is enough, yes?

So I ask, how can this be solved.

I am at a loss for suggestions as I can only think of: a donor center, eh hem, or a planned parenthood office where the villagers are counseled on familial expansion. . Neither sound very good to me, honestly.

I hope we can try to add to a solution, not a problem.

What do you think?

It seems to me that everyone so far has been trying to convince everyone else of their viewpoint, rather than offering constructive feedback to LDW. We here at LDW fully understand the problem, and further debate among yourselves will do nothing but increase the level of acrimony here. Virtual Villagers, by its very nature, must produce children or it would be a very short game, indeed. Arthur has designed the game in such a way as to treat the production of children as delicately as possible. Arguing among yourselves about the implications and morality of the game is counter-productive and serves only to heighten the debate. We welcome suggestions as to how the creation of children might be handled even more delicately, but I will lock this thread if it turns into another finger-pointing morality debate.

P.S. I'm not picking on bethlham for starting this thread. I'm just trying to be proactive here. I've read the other debates, and I want to make sure this thread stays as constructive as it was intended to be.

I have a idea.

How about a sort of wharf, where villagers from different tribes (Not from different user) can come to your tribe?

You need to pay Tech Points to build raft to send your villagers to different tribes and "Recruit" some new villagers
(It might solve the "Thinning the tribe" problem)

You then have to wait for few hours (Or a day?) for the raft to come back.

Old villagers and childrens cannot travel by raft.

Yea! Thanks Nemyar for the suggestion! I think it's better than mine haha.

You get 'snaps' from me for offering a solution.

Doesn't villagers stop getting babies at age of 50 in VV2 and VV3?

I think the developers should just wait til the [censored] thing bowls over. In reality, I am an [censored] survivor. I also have the common sense to know that these are avatars and VV3 is a game! I'd prefer the developers to get going on releasing VV4. Thanks for asking our opinions; that's pretty cool.

Thanks back at c'ha for offering help!





What would be the difference between these two?

I'm going to expand a bit on idea for a wharf.

You get Techology "Migration". It determine how much villagers can be on a raft at once and how much skills the newcomers will have on arrival.

Level One: You can send up to 2 villagers away.
Newcomers will arrive with little to no skills (Untrained).

Level Two: You can send up to 4 villagers away.
Newcomers will arrive with some skills (Trainee).

Level Three: You can send up to 6 villagers away.
Newcomers will arrive with plenty of skills (Adept).

If you send the villagers away, you'll need to pay Tech points for raft and rebuild it again.

You need to pay additional Tech points if you "recruit" some new villagers.

Hmmm...sounds like it just might work! And like you said, it gets 2 birds with 1 stone. (Sorry if that clique isn't PC anymore!)

As in the real world, women cannot have babies later on in life. Men on the other hand are still able to procreate. Such is with the VV games. Women stop having babies after a set age, 50, while the men can still help increase the population despite their age.

What is the reasons for why inbreeding happen?

-Gene pool not large enough?
-Villagers seemingly embrace at random regardless of relativity?

Any other reasons?

yes!

Marriage might solve the "Villagers seemingly embrace at random"

But I think marriage is very confusing...

What will the married couple's children do?

Note, "Johnny" and "Turner" are last name.

Bass Johnny and Tuna Johnny have a boy called Sam Johnny.
Cook Turner and Soda Turner have a girl called Cola Turner.

Sam and Soda grow up and married, had a new surname Coral.

Sam Coral and Soda Coral have two children called Tita and Mua Coral...

Tita and Mua grow up.

Who would they marry?

It's really confusing for me.

I don't see any problem with the way it is now, I think people are just taking it too seriously. Besides, in the beginning when you first start your tribe the little subtitle says "If you're lucky the stork will bring a baby." Or something like that. The STORK.

Will it be hard to program villagers running away, when they are embraced by...

-Father
-Mother
-Sister
-Brother
-Uncle
-Cousin....

I don't have problems with inbreeding in VV games, but other people do.

I'm just suggesting some ideas.

I'm with Melanoma 100%. This is a game people!! Just like TV, it is not real and it's certainly not the place to debate issues of morality. The developers have done a great job with the procreation issue to make it accepable for any age to play. Solution?????? Go back to not listing the parentage and be done with it---what does it matter anyway?? Like everyone else, I am mainly interested in "bodies!" in the beginning of the game so that my tech points increase before the villagers all starve to death--it doesn't matter to me who begets whom---I'll take them any way I can get them. I hope that this doesn't offend anyone but the reality is that this is a game and should be played and enjoyed in that context. Let our LDW people get on with VV4 and do what they do best!! My thanks to all of them for many many hours of fun!!

And I think it's great!

The stork idea is good. Maybe villagers could petition the chief to summon a stork? When my little daughter (6yrs) played VV2 she would ask what was going on during kissing and why were they going in the hut. I would tell her they wanted a baby and would go in the hut to see if a stork left one for them.

And, just doing away with parentage could help. I use the parents when I'm trying to get a particular look of villager...but I never seem to hit the mark...sigh

Great ideas!

I was concerned that this would turn into something other than what was intended by bethlham. This thread was for constructive suggestions only, not for continuing the debate about moral relationships in VV games. I will leave this thread open for suggestions (for now). Any more posts discussing the morality aspects of making baby decals in VV will be deleted and will result in the locking of this thread.

What about the skills held by the villagers who are leaving? Perhaps if, say, a trainee, an adept and a master were to leave, you could get back villagers with the same skill levels, but not necessarily the same skills.

Hmm...that sounds good.

Or, maybe you could lose food or gain a new alchemy plant (maybe make an alchemy 'garden' for this idea in VV4?), etc. besides or instead of new villagers.

The Migration Tech sounds like a logical answer, and fits in with the growing number of techs in VV. Arnie, that addition is a good idea as well. This isn't something we should have to fuss or worry about, or take umbrage over. Concede that the writers, artists, and various techs at LDW understand what is under discussion here, and will find a way to deal with it. The old saying about "you can't please all of the people all of the time" rings true here,

The women stop having children, but the men are still able to...procreate until the day they die. If you stop both @ 50 years old, that will solve part of your problem.

Removed duplicate suggestion.

Hi Mocha! Hey, what are the details of the Marriage vs. Matching idea?

These are really great ideas!!! If there was a vote though, I'd definitely pick the 'Migration Tech' thing.

But maybe, to start off, the villagers should have a more balanced ratio of male-to-female villagers. Later, when a couple of generations down, breeding with one's cousin (or whatever) starts to happen, then they should have built up enough Tech Points for the suggestion of the wharf and raft to come into play.

I think those are good ideas, myself.

I simply like selective breeding, because, in VV2 and VV3, you can actually breed for certain characteristics, like blue eyes, red hair, other hair colors, etc. I like the purple hair and pink hair, and like to breed for that.

"Gifts" (or bribes) for the other village to send recruits? I think that's a cool idea. Or maybe you sacrifice one of your own villagers in a trade with the other village? Like one Adept for two Trainees. Or something. TWO with fresh DNA!

I've heard of many villages in some third-world country who--every third or fourth generation--send some of their people to neighboring villages for this very purpose. To thin out the gene pool. This would be a good way to interconnect the villages of VV1, VV2, VV3 and VV4.

I have no issues with the game just the way it is...

(except for the fact that I have to work and can't be with my villagers 24/7)

I think this subject is being taken too seriously and only making it more complicated than it needs to be. I personally like the way it is now. If everyone has such a problem with it then the 'stork' idea can be stressed further. Perhaps when the two villagers go to the hut a white bird could flash across the screen and drop off a child for the couple. But personally I think it is perfect the way it is.

I like Migration and the raft idea. I kinda like the parentage idea in VV2 because it helps me keep track of parents, and makes me feel close to the villagers . the Migration idea would make it feel like hey, we actually have 3 tribes working together to survive.

and i dont mean to offend anyone, but part of island life is keeping up with population.

my personal opinion.

Actually, Mocha, I like that idea. The "marriage" option would make them more of a family, causing them to interact with each other and the children more.

Ah! I see, I like the idea! I would've thought it would be hard but maybe it's like what you said about VV3 having Nature and Magic factions.

Thanks for elaborating...I see a solution on the horizon!

Another idea would be to have a regularly scheduled new arrival event. We already have those. Just make them pop up much more often, so that players can rely on it happening. Maybe there could be refugees regularly arriving from another part of Isola where it's harder to survive. Don't most of us really like the canoe and barrel of babies events?

Here's an idea to solve the "random embracing" while the player is not looking: Just make it so autonomous embracing can only happen if BOTH villagers are set to Parenting. Then it's the player's choice if they want to allow family members to embrace.

Hm! That's a good...and seemingly easy idea!

Trading villagers between games might be hard to program.

Basically the game create new villagers for you to "recruit"
Thw wharf create rafts which remove or create villagers.

Hm...well, does it have to be a villager from another game or could it just be a 'new and random' villager?

It's "New and Random Villager"

I for one would like to say how grateful I am for the wonderful games you create. I'm sorry to read that people on this site take it to far and turn it into reality. I am also glad that you can rise above the critics and soldier on. Long live LDW and the wonderful games you create.

I agree!!!!! LONG LIVE LDW!!!! I am a very satisified customer!

i like the marriage and recruiting/migrating ideas. im glad we can all come together and solve this "issue"

HMM. I wonder how big the game would be--or how much extra it would cost--if they were able to put all the suggestions into one game.

thats a good idea! W/ that, the families could actually seem to care for eachother rather than the parents thinking something like "Okay. The creature is out of my hands. FINALLY! Now I can go back and research again." It would be really cool to have them actually interact w/ eachother!

oh, thanks Nemyar!




Ditto here!

I've already posted on this in two other threads, and plan for this to be my last post on the subject. I read with great interest, the raft idea, but it does nothing to "grow" your village. It does give the builders something to do, and gives the player something to do with extra tech points, but has two main flaws: One, early in the game you can't spare the builders or the points to build rafts. Two, In order to grow the village, the number of returning villagers would have to be larger than the number sent out. It is an interesting idea for continued play after you've solved all the puzzles, much like the sewing hut is, but really doesn't solve this topic.

I have made the following suggestion: Instead of Parenting, put in a different skill (or even eliminate it altogether). Instead, they can incorporate a "blank" detail screen with an option to "create new villager." If the tribe has the housing to support a new villager, the computer would random generate a new 2 year old. They could also incorporate a "family tree" style database, which the player would have the option of filling in to create marriages, and assign the new baby to the couple of their choosing.

In my opinion, this has the following advantages:
-It eliminates the breeding & mating dillema.
-It helps protect the E for Everyone rating by eliminating a very touchy subject.
-It solves the minor problem of nursing mothers.
-Finally, it should actually lessen the developers workload, since they would be able to write only say 15 variations of each sex instead of having to write every possible outcome of every possible combination.

Of course, I'm just an egotistical old man who thinks he has the solution to everything, and can't quite grasp why the rest of you fail to simply fall in line and jump on my bandwagon!

I actually like this idea. It seems very clear-cut and do-able. The only thing I wonder is if the option to pick boy/girl or a particular type/look of a villager could replace the random generation. You can still pick from the suggested group of 15 variations but the choice could add to player happiness and population control. What d'ya think?

If you mean for example, could you choose create male #15 etc, I suppose that wouldn't be much if any, more difficult, but then I'm not a programmer. I'd say that would be up to them to decide.

Yeah, that seems good to me...but I, also, am not a programmer

I have an idea. Because i enjoy choosing parents and making stories about them and i REALLY REALLY enjoy having kids. How about if say a brother and sister kiss you get a box that says these two are family do you want to move ahead? As far as the marrige goes i like mochas idea. Also what if there is a box where you have the option to put in a last name or not and if you put in the last name of a man and the same for a woman only these two can breed they can't sneak around. Then if you don't want to care you simply don't put last names in.

Great idea Chunks! Thanks for your contribution to finding a solution! Hey...I made a rhyme... It could be a new motto!

yea! like we value your contribution for finding a solution!

I really like the idea of being able too visit other tribes for breeding.They might also beable to have differnt skills to teach our villagers.Like making the stews,I missed that part from #2.Also How about climbing as a skill,there is so many beauiful place that we can not get to.Just my 2 cent worth.lol

Hi All...
I too like the warf idea...sounds great, and much fun...hope they use it in the next one.

marybels

That would be nice wouldn't it?

On a side note, I just want to say thanks to everybody who shared ideas. Really. Things were getting so heated and I am so glad, dare I say proud?, that we could come together to make some productive head-way.

I hope we've given the developers some ideas they can work with.

I look forward to reading more great ideas...I just couldn't resist saying thanks for the maturity of contributing to a solution...regardless of age!

Keep things the way they are. I like seeing the parents - to see what combo made which kid. Otherwise I just breed to get particular looks and variety, and don't care who's who. I don't like the idea of that choice being taken away for something random or having to trade for new people. I enjoy seeing the babies (would prefer moms to be able to do other things as well though), and I anticipate seeing each child become 2 and wondering what it will look like. If some way there could be interaction beween parents and kids, that would be great, but if it would be too much of a programming nightmare, forget it! I'll be satisfied to keep what we've got.

I've really enjoyed hearing some of the explanations on the difficulties of programming. Anyone who has time to explain more, it would be much appreciasted. It all makes me feel even more thankful for the great work done at LDW. You guys are great! Thanks!

kelbek

I did a search with the omitted word to find out whether there are deleterious effects from having parents with a close degree of consanguinity. I still do not know whether such is programmed in as in real life, or if that is only an ethical issue. In earlier times, sibling intermarriage wasn't as taboo as today. Abraham was married to his half sis Sarah. Egyptians regularly practiced sibling marriage. This is a new beginning for these people, as it was for Adam and Eve, so it is to some extent unavoidable. I assume that the idea with VV is to replicate some of the hardships of such a situation. I think at least an occasional newcomer would be nice so we don't wind up with a village that looks as if all were cloned. I also think it would be nice to have some contact among islanders. However, there is one more cardinal point for a village; then connection might be planned for VV5. What I would really love would be an opportunity to select the random or traded villagers to achieve certain goals. I would also appreciate a system for commending or rebuking VV's as in VF. I would also like to see children and nursing mothers able to do some limited tasks as in VF. I also would like to see more interaction between/among people.