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#141318 - 05/09/08 10:13 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villager? [Re: frangipani01]
heatherndan Offline
Consigliere

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 202
Loc: Long Island, US
Yea, but Im sure that there will be a dishonest bunch who would copycat the game if they saw how it was made. That kind of ruins it for the rest of it. I'm sure that some of that is secret info. \:\(
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#141320 - 05/09/08 10:15 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villager? [Re: frangipani01]
frangipani01 Offline
Trainee

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 48
Loc: Queensland, Australia
To PS my own post....Lady bought to my attention that Wikepedia have this information under 'Game Development'. Its well worth the read. Thanks Lady

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#141349 - 05/09/08 10:38 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: frangipani01]
Complexity Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 145
Wiki's info is really good for those who'd like to have some info on how it's done. Here's the link to make it easy for everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development

I'd like to quote one small section which I think may help others understand why a game can sit at 99% for longer than most people would expect:

Quote:
Nearing completion

The weeks leading to completion of a game are intense, with most team members putting in a great deal of—mostly unpaid—overtime. Unsurprisingly, this may lead to short tempers and a great deal of exhaustion. The extra effort is required for most games as unforeseen problems regularly arise and last-minute features are hastily added.

Red emphasis mine.

When I ran my own small business of writing applications for small businesses, I learned to always quote the time at least 3 times more than I ever dreamed it would time. You can never believe how the very simplest of things can put everything into a screeching halt.

For example, I ran into a problem on one application in which the results were not correct, but only part of the time. They were correct the rest of the time. As Spock would say, that's illogical. I went through every tiny shred of code. Scrutinized every loop, every branch, everything!

It turned out to be a _bug_ in the software I was using to write the code. Whenever it ran directly after another code, it would not work correctly. But when another command was issued, it would reset the first one back to working correctly. Very strange. The solution was simple enough once I figured it out. I just had to write a patch routine and call it every time I was needing to use the flawed command. That way, regardless of what combination of selections the user made, the patch would always reset that commend just before it was used.

Can you imagine what it took just to find that one simple thing? And it wasn't even the fault of my own coding. It was an anomaly in the language itself that no one had found yet (I reported it so it was fixed later).

You never know when one tiny thing can throw you way off. All you can do is use your best judgement based on your own previous experience and hope you don't run into something like that last minute. But sometimes it happens, and you have no choice but to delay the project. It's not what you want or what your customers want, but it's what must be done or else you'd deliver a defective product which really messes everything up for everyone.

That's why I'm so patient, I guess. I don't want to see people who are working to give us a product in which we will receive great pleasure to be under great pressure. Sure, they get paid for it. They have to eat, after all. But there is absolutely no reason why any human being should be pressured to rush anything as unimportant as a game (it's not life or death). They'll rush themselves enough as they can't wait to deliver the product (and put food on the table). I just think work must be balanced with actual life. So if they do run across some unforeseen _bug_, then that's what happens, and we'll just wait a bit longer.

When VV3 finally ships, I very much hope it is as joyful an event for those who developed the game as it is for us who play it. \:\)


Edited by Complexity (05/09/08 10:41 PM)

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#141353 - 05/09/08 10:42 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: Complexity]
frangipani01 Offline
Trainee

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 48
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Thanks for that complexity..being new, I didnt know how to put the link in. I highly recommend everyone read the section on testing...:)

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#141364 - 05/09/08 10:52 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: frangipani01]
Complexity Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 145
Originally Posted By: frangipani01
Thanks for that complexity..being new, I didnt know how to put the link in. I highly recommend everyone read the section on testing...:)

You're very welcome. \:\)

Adding a link is extremely easy. Just copy the url from your browser and when you're writing your message, simply past the url — as is — in your message. It will automatically be changed into a clickable link.

The only thing you need to do is make sure there is a blank space before and after the url you post.

There are other ways of adding links, but this works great, especially when just starting out.

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#141366 - 05/09/08 10:52 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: Complexity]
gamesfOrinsects Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Portland
Unfortuantely, it's not really feasable at this point. I sorta left out a step. \:D When I use Photoshop, the skins are painted in Photoshop, then the textures are imported into a 3d modelling program, then they're applied to the 3d model. Then the 3d model frames are rendered out and organized into strips, which then go to Carla, so that she can go insane trying to align them all. (just ask her!) The source Villager files are 3d models, and the clothes are essentially part of the 3d model, so it's hard to separate the two without going back to the source files. I suppose it's possible to render out the outfit minus the extremities, but it'd take a loooooot of time, and then there'd be all sorts of other issues with masking, deleting geometry, etc, lots of technical boring 3d rendering stuff. ;-)
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#141369 - 05/09/08 10:56 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: frangipani01]
gamesfOrinsects Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Portland
frangipani- the best resource to find out more about game development is a game industry site called Gamasutra.com, it's got what are know as "postmortems" where developers talk frankly about what challenges came up during the development of their projects. It's a fascinating site to just click around in if you're interested in how games are made, and you might just find an interview or two with Arthur in there somewhere. ^_^
_________________________
"Painting is stronger than me, it makes me do its bidding."
-Pablo Picasso

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#141374 - 05/09/08 11:04 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: gamesfOrinsects]
Complexity Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 145
Yeah, I can appreciate what you're saying.

I have considered creating my own template by combining arms and legs most uncovered. I noticed that there's not just one template for all characters as there are slight differences in leg positions, etc. to help offer a more natural appearance. But it doesn't seem as if there are that many models so while it would take some time to do it, it wouldn't be terribly bad either.

The real pain would be having to remove the arms, legs, neck from all of the positions for each character. Creating the bottom layer of arms and legs isn't so bad, but there's no way around having to erase the arms and legs from the outfits of each and every position of each and every outfit you want to change. Ugh.

I think I'll stick to modifying the clothes that do not have red or yellow values unless there is a significant difference in brightness.

Maybe after VV3 has been released and most people have finished their first try at the puzzles and all, LDW can do a contest of mods? That would add that much more fun to the games for us all! Plus, then I can be lazy and just steal other people's hard work. LOL! \:D

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#141402 - 05/09/08 11:50 PM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: gamesfOrinsects]
Complexity Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 145
Originally Posted By: gamesfOrinsects
...and you might just find an interview or two with Arthur in there somewhere. ^_^


Found, read, and thoroughly enjoyed. I didn't know Author was such a star in the business! \:D

For those wanting to read some of his interviews and other info regarding VV, here's a link to the search I used:

"Last Day of Work" search on gamasutra.com

I didn't read everything, but I did find one line that I couldn't help but chuckle. Regarding the question of, "What metaphors are most cozy or interesting to the target demographic?", the article said,"...Humphrey [Author] suggests, anything involving food or shopping is a safe bet. (Link to article quoted)

Of course, that begs the question... When will our villagers be able to build stores so they can start shopping? \:D

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#141440 - 05/10/08 01:24 AM Re: Who designed the Villagers from Virtual Villag [Re: Complexity]
halidog Offline
Fan Fiction Enthusiast

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 1718
Loc: One of the thirteen colonies
Lol, that would be funny.

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