OK, well, I'll admit I used to do this too, but it's really annoying to me now and I just want to say it (what can I say, I like complaining)
Here's what I mean:
P1: Hello, I need help with blah blah blah
P2: Hmm, well, I don't think I know.

I just don't get it. What's the point of replying JUST to say you don't know the answer to the question that was asked. I just find it annoying when I'm checking to see if the question is answered and there are just posts saying "I don't know." Here's what I mean.

When I'm skimming a forum, looking for unanswered questions, I just look at number of replies. If there are zero replies, I look at the topic. If there are more, I usually skip it. One day, I found no topics with zero replies, and for about five of them with like one reply, the reply was "I don't know," or something like that. It was annoying and ruined mine (and many others) quick browse methods.

ALSO, another thing I see:
P1: (question)
P2: Try PMing LadyCFII, she would know.

LadyCFII told me (many times ) to not post things saying to PM her all the time. She says (and rightly so) that it is best to have questions answered in the main forum so everyone will benefit from it.

If you agree that the types of replies I am talking about are annoying and just a way of getting more posts? If so, reply here and say why. If not, reply here and say why not. But DON'T reply here saying you don't know.

P.S. Remember, I'm not asking for action to be taken, I just want to let people know what I think.

it IS annoying, jazzo but people HAVE to post, especially newbies

No, people don't HAVE to post. Give me one reason why?

A few more things in this category.

1. Posting something that is just a previous post phrased differently.
2. Saying that you also have had this issue or something like that. Unless it's an opinion thing or poll-type thing, we don't need know how many people have also had that thing.

If people would read and abide by the forum rules, most of those problems would go away. I specifically refer to the following:



and

reasons people have to post:
1. it makes them feel good
2. they may want to up their rank
3. people might forget about them if they never post
4. some people feel an urge to post

Oh, well, it's good that that's there. But maybe this thread will draw more specific attention to the issue. I hope it does. But yeah, this goes for EVERYONE (no matter how much of a "regular" you are on the forums) READ THE FORUM RULES!!!

1. If posting makes you feel good, then you really have no life (unless you mean helping people, cuz that should make you feel good.) But there is no good to be felt with frivolous posting.
2. People just wanting to raise their rank was actually an issue with forum games (and I used to be a big part of it)
3. If you REALLY want to get known, chat in the shoutbox. THat's what it is for.
4. An "urge" to post huh.

and posting is kinda fun, im kinda half with u, half against u, jazzo

[Unfortantely, I have an urge to post. ]


The stuff in brackets in this post was an uneeded part of the post, and I have to say, I make VERY MANY posts that serve no purpose.

I can see what you mean, Jazzo. I too agree (I have, like Jazzo, also done it hundreds of times before) that it is annoying. If you have an 'urge' like DarkJinxKid suggested, DO IT IN ANOTHER FORUM. It is also highly unlikely that we will forget about people (another thing DarkJinxKid mentioned). I hope some realize it's not just annoying for the newbies (I suppose) but also for the Admins probably. If all you are going to post is just useless, junk info, don't bother.

//HP gets on her beloved angelsoap soapbox (again).//

...I have been tempted (as much as I love you all) to avoid the forums all-together because of the very things Jazzo has mentioned is becoming a problem.

IN MY OPINION:
* The best reason to post in a topic of discussion is to be part of the discussion.
* If you enjoy posting, you ought to consider fan fiction, fan art, and the polls. These are the greatest places to express yourself and your opinion.
* That is unless you have a genuine question or answer that belongs in that topic/forum (or tidbit comment that APPLIES).

I recognize that not everyone uses the shout box to get to know the other forumers. However, if a person's only reply is "I don't know", "Let me check", or "go ask (fills in blank of someone else)", the only thing I will know about you is what you don't know. hmmm

As for the rank of the number of posts: I would rather see someone remain a newbie until they know their way around the forum, than find someone who has a rank of Consigliere (that's 200 posts) that either doesn't know the rules of the forum, or knows them and is not following them.

Before I get off my soapbox, I would like to add that I read posts for a loooong time before I even registered. When I finally registered, I did even more reading, but still didn't post much for a year! Imagine, that someone you don't know, but may one day know, is reading your posts. Ask yourself, what kind of impression do I want to make?

My recommendation, try to make a good impression!

//HP steps down from her soapbox... for now.//

Well I've only posted a few times here...
Jazzo, if your underlying purpose was to get me to made a rare superfluous post, you succeeded ! (Kidding of course).

I know what you mean about answers getting lost in a sea of "don't knows" but I prefer threads with responses -- even non-response responses. Threads with no or very few posts just seem kind of lonely. It seems discourteous to me if someone doesn't acknowledge a person's question with some remark. So I have no problem with this. Forums are for gabbing and a big percentage of most conversations is just filler.

Some people (most people in my SCHOOL) have an urge to talk, so maybe an urge to post comes from that. But also, Jazzo, I agree that 'I don't know' or 'ask Lady' are annoying and don't help the problem.

true that it can get annoying that people say these things about "dont knowing" and "go ask(somebody goes in here)". But maybe people think another way for people to know you is posting. and i mean posting anything. although this topic is irritating me(no offense to anybody) i just wanted to say a few things and my opinions. i was in fact a big fan of these forums and joined and i (also likehp) didnt post for a while. thats it. thats all i wanted to say.(what did i say? i getting really fuzzy)

I know what you are saying. But these forums are for a specific purpose: Help with LDW games. Not random gabbing. It is not discourteous to not reply. I just remember (as a newbie) making a "help" post and waiting tensely for a reply. I'd keep refreshing the page many times. When there finally was a reply, if it was just an "IDK," or something like that, it made me angry. Maybe in conversational forums that would be discourteous, but on this forum, the point is to just get the answers out.

Yes, I was one of the "When's VV3 coming out" people, until I decided it was stupid asking and complaining. When they have stuff to tell, they'll tell it. But this won't continue after VV3 is released, so it's a problem that will soon fix itself.

I wasn't naming names or trying to make you feel bad. But you are a wise one, grasshopper, when they "have stuff to tell they will tell it." But I must disagree; for within weeks of VV3's release, there will be a cry for VV4. It happen right after VV2 came out, if you recall.[/color][/font]

In my lurking days I don't remember it being much of a problem. I may be wrong, I often am wrong. It's easy to understand the problem when people are actually looking for knowledgeable responses instead of acknowledgements. The whole situation probably will fix itself once VV3 comes out and people have other things to do....especially with summer coming too.

Maybe VV3 forums will be overloaded at first, but hopefully it will calm down soon after.

The few questions I tried to answer I was wrong. So now I just sit on my fingers and wait for someone with more experience to answer!!

Jazzo, there's a reason it took me so long to earn the Consigliere title that I right now possess. I will not post a reply unless I feel I have something to add to the conversation which hasn't already been stated. I won't even respond saying "I agree," unless I can add something else in there. That's just how I decided to face forums in general. The only exceptions I really have are when I respond to fanfiction but I rarely reply in that forum as is.

As for PMing LadyCFII, I admit I'm guilty of PMing her when I have questions. But usually, if someone has a question (in particular when it's asked in the Shout Box), I see if I can answer it. If I can't (or can't find a response in the forums for them) and no one else in the Shout Box can answer it, I suggest they either create a subject on the topic or ask LadyCFII. Sorry Lady.

Ah, you're a lurker after my own heart HP. I completely agree with everything you said in your post. I was a lurker for a very long time after registering for these forums. I read many posts on these forums and many of my impressions (both good and bad) of people on here were formed long before I introduced myself to them because I had read their posts. Some impressions have changed since I actually got to chat with them on other topics but some have stayed the same. Please think about that before you post.

And Pookie, I agree, I don't remember these forums having as many superfluous comments as there is right now. Oh, and many of my responses to major questions end up linking to a different post where someone more knowledgeable than I had already responded to the specific question.

as for posting just to "rank up", i would much rather make an idiot of myself as a newbie than as something higher. not that i would ever make an idiot of myself! haha!

about posting something similar to the previous post, i kinda did something like that yesterday. not because i was being a copycat, but because the page sat for a bit and i forgot to refresh it before i replied to someone.

so as annoying as certain things are to most of us, i think that sometimes a little understanding goes a long way.

Hey, I am not saying that if it happens at all I'm going to tear my hair out. I'm just asking to maybe start doing a bit less of it. Please.


Umm, I think that's just a tad extreme?!?!?

Ummm well here is my opinion

Well I was a lurker for a little while & when I was kinda new to the forums I hardly posted somebody had asked a question I replied "I have no idea sorry" i then read the rules & it said do not post unhelpful answers such as idk, no idea Etc. so I then realized my mistake so I understand your concern Jazzo but many people have not read the forum rules so they do not no. So if someone posts an unhelpful answer we should just simply tell them if a person has a question in need of an answer that it would be better to not post & I am not trying to be rude just saying so. If U are offended I am sorry i for one am not bothered by this but some are & I am not telling that you are wrong just stating my point of view if I offended you in any way by this post I am sorry I did not intend it

I must say I agree that just reading AND FOLLOWING the forum rules would avoid most of the problems being discussed in this thread. I think reading the forum rules should be a required part of registering, but that's not enforceable.

Having said that, I can think of two areas where I feel short ditto type responses are ok: In fan fic I think it's cool to see responses like "Great story" etc. I DO NOT HOWEVER, WANT TO READ THRU 3 PAGES OF MORE PLEASE MORE PLEASE JUST BECAUSE THE AUTHOR HASN'T WRITTEN IN A WHILE! I admit I too have been guilty of this sort of thing, but I shall try to avoid it in the future. And, Introductions where I think it's ok to post short superficial things to welcome newcomers.

I absolutely agree that in the help & guides sections of the games, you should NEVER post unless you are either asking a question OR Answering (and I mean seriously answering) a question.

In the rest of the forum, I generally don't mind, but admit it does get annoying, especially when someone attacks LDW or a fellow forumer.

A while back I wrote to LadyCFII about everything mentioned here and more. And I let her know that I was deeply saddened that I could not find the information I wanted because I had to get through so many replies that weren't relevent. I expressed my fear that it would get worse with VV3 coming out. And it may seem extreme, I know, but I really was considering leaving the forum until long after VV3 had quieted down.

HOWEVER, it gives me warm fuzzies just to be able to share how I felt. And now that I have said it, and realize that I'm not alone, I don't feel so much like leaving. Though a little courtesy shouldn't be too much to ask, I recognize that I need to be as forgiving as I am patient for VV3 (which I am).

I have to remember, I want to make a good impression too.

Hello everyone,

I guess I can put my 2¢ worth. I have read this thread and carefully thought out what point I wanted to make. There are many things that go on within these forum walls. Inside our fortress resides many different people. People of different nationalities, age, gender, religious backgrounds, or intelligence. I am definitely not the sharpest crayon in the box. We have people who are veteran forumers, coming from other boards and we have the new ones who chose this place to be the first forum they participate on.

With such diversity comes patience. A great community like ours has to excersize tolerance. Some of our fellow members may come from boards where respect for one another is non-existent. I dislike those boards with a passion. In fact this is the only forum I have stuck with. Some forums I stick around just long enough to find the information I am looking for and then I leave, never to return. Do you think they even miss me? Do you think they even notice I am no longer there? No. I do not cultivate friends on those forums so how can I be missed?

I have many friends on this forum. Male and female. I have friends who live in my own state. I have friends who live in other countries that I will probably never get to meet face-to-face. That part is sad. I doubt I will even get to meet my friends who live on the other side of the country.

Now with that said, I would also like to remind everyone that some of our forumers are raw and new to this type of community. Some people have never been to "Pleasantville" before and need to be shown the ropes. I do agree that many people probably have never even looked at the rules for this forum. That makes it tough for the rest of us, I understand that.

There are meaningless, repetitive, or continuous posts. These can be frustrating. I understand this too. It does deter from the main concept of this forum. I have been here for over a year now, almost every single day. Does that mean I do not have a life? No, it means I enjoy being here. I enjoy being involved. I enjoy the company I keep. It has been tough at times. People have targeted me as there source of fun. I didn't enjoy it all the time, but with patience and constant polite comments, I was able to turn it around after awhile.

People just need to be shown how to do things. We are similar to the villagers we tend to on our VV games. Do they come in knowing how to do things well from the beginning? Some do. Most do not. We need to teach them how it is done, what we want out of them. It is the same here. Respect and honor one another. The best way to get through to someone is with kindness and patience. If you attack someone, they will get defensive. It is a natural reaction and it might actually encourage the same actions you were getting upset about.

I too remember a group of people here who were trying to boost there post count. It was a race to see who could outdo the other. In the end they were given the title of "Post Cheater Newbie" (PCN) and if I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, they got post counts taken away. I didn't appreciate the actions from the PCN's. It made trying to get a new title pointless. There was no pride in getting to the next level with meaningful posts.

We have all been guilty of at least one of Jazzo's concerns at least once. We learn, we adapt, or we leave, or, on rare and severe occasions, we are forced to leave. We do have rules here and everyone really should read them. We should follow them. I know I have, as the Forum Moderator, had to delete posts or complete threads because they were way off-topic, irrelevant, or did not follow the rules. I have received bad comments when I do that. I have received less than appropriate PM's because I deleted something. It is my job. I take my position here on the forums very seriously. I try very hard to be fair. There are things I have seen that I do not like. Some, I find offensive, but I do not remove them because I don't like it. That would be a dictatorship and that would be the worst for this forum. If it doesn't break the rules then it stays.

So I guess I am just saying that there are things on this forum that will upset us or annoy us from time to time. I am sure we will do or say something that will annoy someone else. Again, I say this... Patience, respect, and honor. Be patient with others, be patient with yourself. Respect and honor others, respect and honor yourself. Remember our fellow forumers have feeling as you do. Respect people's feelings and you will honor yourself.

i know i have done this (i am not going to anymore) but sometimes when the author of a story doesnt write in a while i would put "MORE MORE i'm dying" or something but i wont anymore because it annoys me too. when i open my watch lists i think "ooh more story!" only to realize it's just "more more more more". as i said, i wont do it anymore and about that thing on page 1 how someone said people like to post for the sake of it, i do like posting, but i help people most of the time.

Well, I agree with what Gamemastr1 says.

All this makes me thinking of a little scenario:

Parents are in the kitchen making the birthday cake and the kids are already sitting at the table!

And it begins:

"Mom! C… makes some faces!!"
"Hey B…, stop swing on your chair!"
"Dad, A… took my plate!
"I'm hungry!!!"
"I'm thirsty!!!"

The Mom: "just a minute, it's ready soon!"

"Mom! M… is doing some little balls with his bred"
" Dad! M… is throwing the little balls on my face"
"Mom! B… is throwing the cream on C…'s hair!!"
……………………..
……. And I let you imagine the following!

As so often happens, Gamey has stated, much more eloquently than I could, what I was trying to say. We (especially those who've been here awhile) should be patient with the newcomers until they learn their way around.

If you see someone who is violating forum policy, or just being unpleasant, you should politely and compassionately, help that person rather than attacking them. I frequently do this in a PM since that's generally easier to swallow, but sometimes in a reply to the post.

Like many people here, I have been to several forums but generally do not stay for one reason or another. This is hands down my favorite forum and the one I frequent the most. At this time I am involved in only one other forum (it's one for veterans) and even that one I only visit once or twice a week.

Patience, humility, and compassion by the members towards each other is what makes this forum great and will allow it to continue growing in both size and popularity.

We owe it to ourselves, and each other, to do what we can to keep this forum polite and a safe heaven for those who come here.

P.S.HOW ABOUT A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE ADMINISTRATORS AND MODERATORS, WHO DO SUCH A GREAT JOB ON THIS FORUM? I, PERSONALLY, DO NOT KNOW THAT I COULD BE AS FAIR AND UNBIASED AS THEY ARE. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!

XD right.

XD right.

sorry, posted twice!

If you click on "Edit" then on "delete post" of one of them!

LOL at my home too!! But we were just 5 children, not 17 255!!

Well,I'm sorry I must have done such mistakes many times and I must have said "I don't know" many times too, and I agree with people on both sides but if it's a rule to not do that nobody should do these things, wherever I go, I try to make a good impression but I think it's unfair if someone forgot reading the rules and you insult them so much, this place has a LOT of people so it's natural that everyone makes mistakes. I agree that I've turned into Adviser pretty fast but I don't think it's anything wrong because I try to make all of my posts make sense and I never tell anyone to PM anyone. And I've never made tons of post saying "Continue this story!!!". Actually I've only said that once EVER.

And THAT is my opinion, anybody is allowed to disagree but please don't get angry.

When I post just for telling "please continue" it's not to have more post!! With the more than 3400 that I have, believe me, I'm really embarrassed!! I'd like to see the counter be blocked!!

It's because I like the stories that I read and I know than our storytellers like to receive some comment to their work!
Each time I see someone writing a story, I'm happy and want to encourage him/her!! I'll continue and I hope I'll not be the only one!!


Please Bom, don't be sorry for that!! and I don't think that anybody is really angry (I hope)

"P.S.HOW ABOUT A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE ADMINISTRATORS AND MODERATORS, WHO DO SUCH A GREAT JOB ON THIS FORUM? I, PERSONALLY, DO NOT KNOW THAT I COULD BE AS FAIR AND UNBIASED AS THEY ARE. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!"

Thanks Rockmower. They all need a standing ovation. I have never been one to dawdle on forums or do anything on the net except check my email, but I love coming to these forums. I just love that there is no swearing or lewdness....its PG all the way which is so refreshing. Alot of work and patience goes into monitoring a forum as successful as this and I second Rock on applauding all your hard work! Come on VV3!!

Laurence, I do not think that is at all what we were trying to say.
As an author, it is very flattering when someone shows appreciation for a story by telling the author the story is great and to please post more.

I think what is being said here, is please don't carry it to extremes. As an example, the story Robert1220 is writing about Agent LadyCFII, Is, in my opinion, a delightful tale which I'm trying to follow. The problem is, there are often 3 or more pages of more please more please posts over and over and ov(ok you get the point) often by the same people! This makes it very difficult to follow the story, because then you have to wade through all of that to see if the author did indeed post more, or if it was just more begging by the crowd.

//side note: This is probably one reason I'm NOT an administrator here. If I were, I would likely go in and delete all those trivial posts that serve no purpose other than to boost post counts and clutter the thread! //

I know what you mean but it would be enough to just ask to the concerned people.


(I copy/past on word all the stories I read (without the comments) so I don't have any probl to follow!! )

First:
A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE ADMINISTRATORS AND MODERATORS!! YOU ALL DO AN AWESOME JOB!!

Second:
//HP sets up her angelsoap soapbox so that the angel is sure to face forward//

I suggest that we come up with an agreement, like the SPCV for gentle correction of Newbies. Perhaps if we pitch in and help them know the rules and gently say what needs to be said, we can have a smoother running forum. I wrote the following (I like the previous Bill of Rights type post, so I hope it's ok that I borrowed from it.) with the hope that those of us who have been here awhile can work together as a team. Agreeing with the policy would NOT mean that you MUST correct every little mishap, just that we agree that respect and honor is the way to handle problems, and only correct when it is necessary.

The Forumers Agreement To Gentle Correction of Newbies (FATGCN)

The Newbies Bill of Rights :

(Edited by HappyPlayer)

Preamble:
We the forumers, in order to minimize wording abuse (real or imagined); to ensure harmonious posting; and to ensure a "Pleasantville" existence by all forumers (visible or invisible) do hereby establish and ordain this bill of rights.

Article 1:
All Newbies are registered free and equal in dignity and rights without distinction of any kind, such as continent, gender, age, typing skill...
Every Newbie has the right to post, shout and security of expressing opinion.

Article 2:
Every Newbie has the right to ask for help (including in the form of 'dumb' questions) without fear of reproach or rebuke.

Article 3:
No Newbie shall be subjected to word abuse or ex-communication by fellow forumers on the grounds of Article 2.

Article 4:
Every Newbie is entitled to be gently offered Forum Rules or directions to find Forum Rules.

Article 5:
All followers of the FATGCN shall do everything in their power to ensure the peace and harmony in the life of our Newbies as they become familiar with the Forum Rules. This includes but is not limited to offers of mercy, love, respect, honor, grace, and gentle correction (as necessary).
_________________________________________________________________

Before I can establish this forumer agreement, I need a show of agreement. Please let me know if there needs to be any Amendments to it, or if it should just be abandoned.

Thank you for hearing me out.
//HP steps down. Hands soapbox over to her fellow forumers...//

I do agree with HP. Even though it can be annoying, the people who say "I don't know" or "ask 'moderator's name here'" are usually inexperienced and just want to show that they are curious. Maybe a moderator should start a topic that tells people to not PM them and why.

People just need to be shown how to do things. We are similar to the villagers we tend to on our VV games. Do they come in knowing how to do things well from the beginning? Some do. Most do not. We need to teach them how it is done, what we want out of them. It is the same here. Respect and honor one another. The best way to get through to someone is with kindness and patience. If you attack someone, they will get defensive. It is a natural reaction and it might actually encourage the same actions you were getting upset about.
You hit the nail on the head with that statement! Because after all we ALL make mistakes, And learning should be fun, not to be scolded and made to feel like the black sheep if we mess up sometimes, and somemore times... Thanks to Gamey for that Kewl quote! was perfect! P.S sorry for the double reply, needed to give Gamey due credit.

I second your bill HP! (does that mean I now have to squeeze "member of the FATGCN into my siggie?//

Maybe the original poster (sorry, didn't look at name) was just having a bad day and used the board to vent about an annoyance to him/her. Haven't we all had those? lol

There are as many different interpretations of the word attack as there are people on the boards.



The people of the forum all come from many places, different backgrounds, different ages, etc., etc. All parties need to be understanding. It won't work if just the responders are. The original poster(s) needs to be as well.

It also feeds upon itself when other posters chime in concerning the "attackers" or the "victims".

We all are human and we all want our opinions heard, but when sides are taken that just creates even more hard feelings.

It's not just being nice, polite, and understanding to the new people. All of us need to be nice, polite, and understanding of everyone that posts here.


**I just used Gamey's post here in order to collect my thoughts on this issue. Read in it's entirety, or in portions, it's a great post! It is NOT an attack on Gamey. **

I'm thinking of changing the name of the bill, since I realized that the when you read it the acronym comes out like "FAT" "G.C." "N" (!) :P

How about:

Fair Treatment of Newbies Act (FTNA)

Then anyone who wants to add it to their siggie could perhaps write it as:
"In Agreement with the FTNA"

If agreed to, and no more admendments are added, I will make a new post.

i think this is getting out of hand, but i guess ill sign up...

You know what? Me too! and darkjinx, just put FTNA member in you sig.

I'm sorry HP, but I think this is getting a bit stupid. This is all the kind of basic stuff found in the rules. Besides, this is getting more complicated than the SPCV (which I think is even a tiny bit too complex even though I am the president.) All I wanted to do hear was mention this issue. We don't need this "petition" of sorts. That will do the opposite of making the forums more pleasant. You get it?
So . . .

Let's just forget about all of this and try to just NOT make frivolous posts (without having to create a bill of newbie rights)

Capice?

Capiche!

You make a great point. My main idea was to show that a little friendliness in gently correcting newbies is easy if we think of them as equals. I wasn't specifically thinking of a petition, but I can definitely see how that could create some other problems. And it has now occured to me that by adding this "agreement" per se, I was doing one of the very things I was recommending to for us all not to do, and that was go off-topic and/or post irrelevant or not-so-relevant material.
So I offer my double apologies, and I won't post it.

No hard feelings on this end; I want to be part of the solution, not the problem.

I dont think i'll join but I will try not to make any pointless replies from now on!

lets PLEASE just forget about this fit 'n all okay? but ido c jazzos piont tho, we need 2 stop the pointless stuff