religious diversity

I wish you'd build religious diversity into the game. When we found out that we were building an idol and a pagan temple in the first Virtual Villagers game, we all got a bit turned off by it. When we found out we were practicing black magic in the second game, we got turned off again. We didn't even bother with the third virtual villagers because by this point, we didn't trust it anymore.

All in the world those parts of the game are is pictures that appear after watching the villagers busily working for a while. Why couldn't you build in a choice of religions in the options of the game? Couldn't there be a choice of what is there now for pagans, a choice of a cross and a chapel for Christians, maybe a choice of a Buddha and a temple for Buddhists, and so on? That way we wouldn't have to feel like there is something counter to our religion built into the game.

I think it would be good to really consider what would go into granting such a request. First of all, think of how many religions there are. And not only that, but there are, of course, the major types of religion that most everyone has heard of (such as Christianity, Judaism, etc)... but in addition there are all the little groups that have split off from those - varying denominations - and localized religions that only apply to a (relatively) small area.
If LDW (which, keep in mind, is not a very large game company) were to try to take even a fraction of all of these into consideration, they would be coding and programming for, quite possibly, years to get them all into play. Because honestly, these features aren't just images. They're lines and lines of coding to make the game use those images.
A very complicated request, when you think about it long enough. And if anything (and I mean anything) were left out, LDW stands to have people get mad at them over that too.
It's just simpler and easier to build in the villagers' own little beliefs and traditions and leave it.

I'm sure Krystal didn't mean any offense by that .

Also, you could try to make a mod replacing the statue with something that you feel fits .

The mods are the perfect solution to this issue! Although they will not change the programming, at least you can be comfortable viewing your own religious symbols portrayed in the game.

As members of the LDW team have stated in the past, the VV games are not fixated on any specific religions and were designed to try to avoid these religious assumptions. Our villagers are designated on a remote island with its own set of history and culture while the main focus is on their survival.

Another common issue that pops up is the lack of varying skin tones to give it more diversity. It would be nice to have all of these options and apply our own beliefs and experiences into the game, but as Krystal has mentioned it would be very complicated.

Keep in mind our villagers are foreign to the island and its area and are renovating Isola to be in its former glory. I find that they respect & honor the land by keeping the ruins and artifacts intact as opposed to worship.

That's cool. You make the game the way you want it. Just understand that some of us won't be buying the game as long as it runs counter to our beliefs. I don't have the skills to do mods and my child is not comfortable with the game as it is, nor am I.

There are many mods made by other players in the Mods Forum. If you do not find anything that fits what you are looking for, you might contact one of the modders to see if they have the time to make a mod for you.

I'll apologize in advance, if you feel this post offends you. That is not my intention. It is not pointed at any one person or group of people. It is intended to view my personal opinion on the entire mass of posts where people express their "discontent" with their perceived religious; racial; or life style contents of the games.

I'm not going to get into a Biblical dispute here, nor start quoting scripture. I will tell you that there are many, many members who are devout believers in their religion that play these games without a problem.

I happen to be a Christian and an ordained minister. I know at least one member who is a Messianic Jew, and another who is an Orthodox Jew. I know a couple of members who are of the Muslim faith and am pretty sure that one other is likely Hindu.

I feel LDW has done an admirable job of keeping religion OUT of the games. I have no more problem reconstructing the statue and ruins in VV1 than I do reading articles related to the Moi on Easter Island or of Stonehenge. The same goes for the puzzles and challenges in the other games.

I'm sure LDW does not intentionally offend anyone by either inserting or omitting objects into the games. What I think they do, and do very well, is build casual games that are challenging and fun to play.

I would suggest people would be happier if they concentrate harder on trying to keep their tribes alive long enough to solve the puzzles, than they will be by trying to infer religious; racial or domestic connotations into the games.

Remember, they only offer the games for sale, they do not coerce anyone into buying or even playing them. They are extremely considerate in offering enough free trial time for anyone to determine if the game is suited to them or their children.

Each consumer should carefully evaluate the game during the free trial period. If they feel it is appropriate, they can then purchase it for a reasonable fee. This is the consumers right and their choice.

It is NOT however, the consumers right to try and dictate standards to the company on how to build the games. You may, of course, make suggestions about what you'd like to see by using the suggestions threads that are posted for each game.

If your goal is to dictate the content of the games, you should start your own company and build games that fit your standards. If you aren't a skilled programmer, there are plenty of them available for hire. In this way you can build games that you are entirely comfortable with. Who knows? I might even buy them.

In other words, feel free to buy the games as they are and enjoy them, or decide they aren't suitable to your life style and go find another game to play.

I think that was what I just said, but with many, many more words.

There's just NO pleasing all of the people ALL of the time!! It is hard enough PLEASING some of the people some of the time!!

First, please don't take offense; I pretty much agree with all that has been said here. My take regarding the idols is that this is taking place in a much earlier time and it is a deserted island that is populated by just a few and that period of time is about idols, pagans and whatever.

Second, you use the word "we" and the words "we all" may I ask who we and we all are? I'm sure you are referring to your friends and not the majority of people who have been playing the VV series from the beginning. Because with your wording and your logic, the fan base for the VV series would have died with the first one.

For the record, I am a Catholic who believes in all the saints and deities the good nuns and priests have taught me; but, I have never been offended by the idols. Maybe a little imagination is needed to play some games.

i agree with Rockmower....

LDW does a really good job at keeping religion out of the forums and out of the games....

i think things are better that way because we dont have religious disputes and such. Also having religion means that there will be thousands of more threads asking for help... the forums doesnt have that kind of room on its database, and it would also take a lot more from our moderators and admins to go through each thread for each religion. that would be even more of a pain.

And like Krystal said... There are lines of coding that make up these pictures you see. it would take EONS to get each kinda religion into the game, especially since its already been made.

You can always use your imagination and pretend its the way you want it to be, and then mod it to fit your religious preference... But the games are already made, and theres no going back and changing them... Sorry if this sounds harsh... But no one is forcing you to play or buy the games, therefore you dont HAVE to play them... So simply put, if you dont like it, dont play the games...

blessed,

Please think practically here. To build into the games different religions would mean a whole series of different versions. How many religions should be represented? If someone said that they followed the Jedi religion, would that be enough reason for LDW to build a game simply for them? What about adherents of Wicca (witches)?

To develop lots of versions would be more expensive for LDW, meaning that the price would be higher.

I also have to take issue with your mention of black magic in VV2. There is the magic gong, yes, but how do you know if it is black or white magic?

This is my own opinion, and I do not mean to offend anybody in any way. Please PM me if I offend you so I can apologize.

Dear blessed,
I feel that the Virtual Villagers games are only games! They are set in a ficticious island. LDW has tried not to offend anybody with their approach to religon, and they have done an admirable job.
Also, how is the statue offensive? From the time of the Byzantine Empire, Eastern Christians have been praying to portraits of saints, called icons, which can be compared to the idol. Also, these fictitious villagers have their own culture and beliefs, which are completley fictional.
This is similar to those who challenge the Harry Potter books because of alleged themes of witchcraft. This view is completely off, as the Harry Potter series promotes themes of love and frienship. The Virtual Villagers series are fun, harmless games that can be enjoyed by everybody.
Finally, I feel that if you cannot accept the supposed "paganisim" in these games, how can you accept beliefs and opinions other than your own in the real world? If a computer game does not completely uphold your religous values, I feel very strongly that you need to look at your view at the world, and be more accepting of the differences that define the human race.

Note: I am a Catholic, and feel no religous or ethical issues with playing the Virtual Villagers games.

~Kikiann11

Kikiann11 is 'right on the money'!
However I can't help but wonder to 'blessed': WHY do you need to have your religion painted over every single little thing you do? Just because A GAME does not promote a certain religion, it is no reason to not play it - or even attempt to change it so it does. By your reasoning, (and I'm not being offensive here - only logical) would you not eat a piece of toast if it did not have a crucifix on it? Would you not wear clothes without first checking thread by thread for any sign of a buddha symbol or anything like that?
Diversity is what makes the Earth what it is. (I for one am a scientist studying to become an Astronaut - where religion plays NO part in my life - and I get on perfectly)
If we did not have multiple views and belief systems, it may lead to a far more boring way of life.
Regardless, these (utterly impeccable) games are simply showing the life and times of *fictional* villagers; how they think, their past, present, and future, and their belief system. I for one barely registered the belief system idol, it just seemed normal that they had something to believe in - and, with a magical island (obviously not real.............? ; ) ) why would you think it would have the religious views you hold? Or anyone holds?
We accept your views, why not try accepting theirs.

I think LDW made it that way because they might have wanted a typical island land. I feel if I look at an island like that it would probably seem like a idol like religion. It's based on villagers that are not as technacally advanced as we are. LDW is a game company that welcomes anyone to play their games. So, in that matter, it's to much to do what you're saying. And since we have diversity in our players, they can't please everyone. Mods are the best thing to do to fix that.

I mean no offense to anyone in what i am about to say its just my opinion
dear: Blessed
one of the key points of human nature is to question everything but one of the down falls of human nature is to question nothing if your confuse about this saying its simple if no one had question religion i would live in the dark ages now were i wouldn't have a choice of religion or faith it would be chosen for me by those who think they know whats best for me instead of the age were in i can look at other religions and chose for my self whats best for me. play the games hour free trial without looking at it religously, if you like it because of the game play, music,or any of its other great qualitys fine but if not delete it and leave it alone its that simple.

Dear Blessed,

I know where you're coming from. It bothered me at first, too. Key word: Imagination!
We Christians could pretend that God is the source of the supernatural happenings on Isola. Call it 'miracles' instead of 'magic'. After all, what is that great tree called in VV4? The Tree of Life! Maybe Isola is like a less perfect version of the Garden of Eden.
The idol in VV1? Who is to say the villagers don't like sculptures? You aren't required to make them worship it, are you? As for the temple, well, it's a place of worship, so pretend it was built to honor Jesus Christ.
Anyway, that's my take.
God be with ya,
Girl4God

Girl4God & blessed,
I still don't understand why you insist on making everything you do about Christianity. Can't you just leave the villagers to their own religion and respect that theirs differ from yours?

Please remember not to get personal in these discussions. This thread is allowed to remain, because it addresses an issue over which some members are concerned.

Remember that while we do allow open discussion of these topics, we do not allow dissension or quarreling.

Please keep your replies polite, and respectful of the opinions and concerns of your fellow forum members.

My apologies for a seemingly offensive post, my question was just that. A question.

cmastro,

Wasn't offensive in the least, cmastro. You had a right to ask a question. Let me see if I can answer it.
As Christians, it is actually our duty to have everything we do reflect God. That does not mean others cannot have their own beliefs; we are simply attempting to honor our Father in heaven, like He wishes everyone to. So if blessed finds the Virtual Villagers games uncomfortable for her to play because of the villagers worshipping idols and practicing magic, even though you and I don't have a problem with it, remember there are different ways for us Christians to honor God and I believe this is hers. (Correct me if I'm wrong, blessed.)
So that's it, cmastro. I respect your feelings on this matter and I didn't take offense.
Be seeing ya,
Girl4God

P.S. Good luck with the astronaut training! That is so cool.

I'm glad, (and thanks). I understand where you are coming from.
How christians *want* to embrace 'God' in all aspects of their life.
I guess I had trouble understanding her mindset when confronted with a fictional game, in which, human belief systems have not entered.
It really shows the world, where each little place can have totally separate religions, each with the passion to believe theirs is the best.
Its not like you can go to India or somewhere and demand that they all turn to christianity while you visit there hahahahaha.

P.S Thanks

I think it's a good idea but consider this: if you were part of a more minor religious group and LDW only put the major religions in, then the others may feel that they are being unfair (making it seem as if one group is more important than the other)
Perhaps you should try a different LDW game. Virtual Families doesn't have religion of any sort in it.

I don't mean to be offensive (PM me if you are mad about what I wrote so I can apologize) but this is my opinion:

1. If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one is forcing you to play.
2. If you like the pictures and music and game play but don't like the religious content, you can request a mod on one of the Game Forums. Some of the other users know how to make mods.
3. An alternative suggestion is using your imagination and pretending that the temple and idol was built for the god that you believe in.
4. OR just accept the game as it is and play it.

123isolagirl

P.S. I have a religion too. But I enjoy VV as much as the other VV fans.

Wow! Funny, I was just telling my dad how games are becoming more and more religious, and how this one new game's entire goal (to remain nameless) is to rebuild a temple with a bunch of pagan idols and have your people worship it. I was pleased to see someone else note that in this forum. However, I never expected what occurred in response. My religion? Irrelevant. My opinion on what has already been said? Also irrelevant. In fact, blessed said a few things, was almost attacked, and then lectured repeatedly. The lectures, in fact, looked cut and paste, and I don't blame her for saying "That's pretty much what I said, only in many, many more words." and then not visiting the forum again. Possible solution (I won't mention what has already been said, that has already been done repeatedly)? You could very easily leave religion out by making the entire puzzle to build a butterfly atrium, a rock garden, or discover some ancient village's use for toilet seats. Ridiculous? To some perhaps. But what will be remembered 20 years from now, another remake of King's Quest, Space Quest, or a breeding simulation with little variance? I plan on buying the VV5 btw.

I assume you refer to VV1 here, as the others don't have a temple. That is not the game's "entire purpose". In fact rebuilding the temple is the 11th out of the 16 puzzles in the game.

Here is a quote, from Arthur himself, on the subject of religion in the game(s). It can be found in this thread.

My beliefs are my own as everyone's should be. But to me these forums were meant as a place to get technical help, game help from other gamers and the developers, for game stories and art. make suggestions for future games etc. While all of us are entitled to our own beliefs and opinions it does not necessarily mean we have to air them. I respect the beliefs and opinions of all who have posted in this thread but I think the time has come to end it, lock it or whatever as there is nothing I or anyone else can say one way or another that hasn't been said by some one else already.

I will however voice an opinion which is....This is only a game not real life.....It is meant to be fun and entertaining and while it runs in real time it is not meant to emulate real life.....

At least that is my take on it.

You can add Atheist/Buddhist to that list. I do not believe in a God, but I do believe that there should be some sort of code that I should try to live up to. I choose the basic tenants of Buddhism, although I wouldn't presume to tell you which code you should follow. I could have just as easily chosen The Bushido, or The Five Rings, or Plato's Republic.

Atheists tend to be as offended as any religious group with the insertion of religion where it shouldn't really belong, such as the opening of the sessions of Congress (USA), or secular games like this series. I don't like taking part in public prayers, for example, any more than I would like being referred to a shaman for my toothache. If I felt as though this game was trying to force me into a religion, even a made-up one, I wouldn't play it.

I have never had any problem with either statue, rain dancing, any temple or similar structure, the Golden Child, or the ghost story in VV3. I don't consider it a religion per se, more of a culture or a fantasy, no different than Neil Gaiman's novels. I've barely scratched the surface in VV4, but I'd be shocked if I was offended by any pagan overtones.

My thought is that if you do not enjoy a game, do not play it. Any reason will do, be it boring game play, graphics, overall experience, lack of challenge, or any other reason that you could come up with. If you do enjoy the game, play it. It should be that simple.

I don't see it as a religion but trying to get the heatens to believe in the player. Think about it are you god? No you are just a human. The villagers are trying to get the heathens to believe in someone who will care for them and who will love them and thats the player. I do love them they are like real family to me.

@Mysteryshrimp (even though that post is months old): If anything, VV4 has a slight druidic theme and maybe a little Bhuddist, while there is definetly a spiritual element in VV4, it is in no way religious.

It would be more easily seen as taking care of the Earth, with the sickly life tree being the polluted Earth.

Still, I think they went a little heavy handed on the heathens, somehow.

I've played all of the games from the third onward, and I've seen (almost) nothing that reminds my of actual religion; in VV4, there's even an event celebrating the "Guiding Hand".

The only thing that I have ever found offensive in the games is the heathens' mediocre actions, such as munching on dirt, and how, when attempting to convert blue masked heathens, it says that your villager is explaining "the truth" to the heathen.

As I believe many others on this thread have stated, Last Day of Work has done a great job in keeping religions practiced in real life.

The Guiding Hand is really us, that's who the villagers are honoring in VV5. They do the same thing in Lost Children and Tree of Life. I guess the true Guiding Hand are the creative people at LDW. But it's supposed to be us, the players.

I've never been irritated by anything in the whole series of Virtual Villagers ( except by the G.C., of course )
and I hate fighting so I hope this is over with soon. I really hope I don't offend anyone.

If they did include religious diversity, they would have to make a totally different game. There wouldn't even be a guiding hand. Also, if you just include the major religions, the smaller religions will be angry and insulted. People who aren't apart of any denomination would also be offended.

It would take years of coding to just include one or two religions. LDW is a small buissness, so it may even take longer depending on their current size.

I'm a Christian also, but I find I'm not bothered by them doing anything slightly religious. I know many different and diverse people that are Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, and people with no religious beliefs. If you met a someone with different religious beliefs, would you immediatly demand they convert and ignore them if they refuse?

I agree with Krystal. You should just let them have their own traditions and beliefs. Let's all just leave it that way.

I am christian. I am not offended by the way LDW deals with religion. I am not part of the "we all" who are offended.

Just like in other entertainments, some of which have fantasy or real belief systems portrayed in them, individuals are free to decide to pay the money to see the entertainment or to not see it. Same with games. individuals are free to choose to play them or not play them, to buy or not buy them.

The cost of LDW games have been about as much as going to a movie and getting a soda and some popcorn. Just as there are many companies making movies some of which may be more acceptable to your values, there are other companies making games that may be more suitable to your values.

Considering the number of games which contain mainly voilence in some for or another - LDW games are less voilent and more problem solving. Personally, I'd rather see kids playing a non violent game than one that requires violence to complete it.

I'm hoping the next game for PC comes out soon.