Just wondering, why there isen't much diversity

Couldn't we have Oriental's, African American's,Indian's, etc... It just seem's more realistic, then a lot of Blonde's "and I am one" & red head's. don't get me wrong... I Love The Wolfie Guy's, and I DLed the Mod to make the girl's hair Green, Pink, & Purple, How 'bout some Tattooes? Just a thought, I apologize if I posted this in the wrong place, Please forgive me, but as I play more & more Native ppl belong in the VV world, don't ya think?

Well,it's an isolated island.The tribes may not be yery diverse becuase of this.Many of the villagers living on the island might have just come from smaller surrounding islands.But this is just my opinion.

In addition to the fact that these villagers have all descended from a group of refugees from a single, fictitious island, there is also a technical reason for the "cultural" similarity of the villagers. The heads and bodies have to be interchangeable so that different head and bodies will go together. For each head and body there are many different views and poses, and all of those take a lot of work to create. Just like the male and female villagers have to be handled separately (so that a male head isn't placed on a female body, for example), each different skin tone would have to be managed separately. It's not impossible, but isn't necessarily a practical thing to do in Virtual Villagers.

Your question is a valid one and has been asked several times before. In fact, as a woman of multi-culture background married to a blond guy, the lack of more "tribal villagers" have been one of my few, but chief complains. On such islands, blondes and redheads and few and far in between. Women who married-or matched were tattoed or recieved henna, for example as a change in their status of being a wife/match and mother. It was part of my wish list for VV2 and the forth coming games. Your right; the above would be more fitting and I am hoping that in VV3, that will be reflected.

I could do a mod to make like everyone african-american or something like that? When I get home, I'll get to it.

Thank you, Lady C. Though it would still be nice to see a few "mocha people" running about, I am a computer dummie and the differently you speak of isn't something I have consider. However, is it possiable to just darken the skin tone on the villagers to be more reflected of an island village? Or would you run into the same problem?

I would love that! Thank you Jazzo. Maybe I am asking too much, but could you make the tribe look like my hubby and I? The first baby will be named after you! Where do I send your chocolate chip cookies?

Almost anything is possible, but any change like that, since it would be applied to all of the villagers, would still result in complaints about cultural diversity. It's simply not possible to please everyone completely, and would probably result in a bad game if we tried.

I see and understand. It was just a wish. As they say; if it aint broke, don't fix it.

I love the game just the way it is.

I love the game just the way it is also. I like the black hair, red hair, blond hair, reddish brown, golden brown, hardly no hair villagers.

We have addressed this issue many many times. One additional problem in having more diversity would be in the babies. If you breed two villagers that have different skin color, how should the babies look? The game use separate grids for the heads and for the bodies. So we should always be careful not to mix bodies and heads that have different colors. It gets extremely complicated and hard to implement.

it is nice the way it is and i no its hard to make different races and stuff, but itd b better with more diversity

Hi Carla;
First, I am sorry, but this was the first time I heard of the tech problems that would arise. I didn't realize that there would be major difficulties. I haven't found the answer through the Search Funtion and I was just alittle curious. I also realize this question would have best been served under under "Tech issuse." My mistake.
And being a Moch Lady married to a French Vanilla Gentleman, we get the "I wonder what your babies will look like all of the time."
Answer? Beautiful.
I have to confess; after reading yours, LadyC' and Jazzo's reponses to my question, I am now thinking about enrolling in a coure on computer gaming.

Of course!!!

In order to make a wide variety of villagers any "head" can be attached to any "body". This means the color hue of the head has has to be the same color of the body to make it realistic or it would be awkward.

We could have separate grids for a different skin color where the heads would attach to the bodies of this grid.

What if I want, then, to breed a villager from the first grid to a villager from the second grid... from which grid would the child be taken from?

Carla; firt, thank you for taking your time and being patient with my questions. I guess it is because I work with colour all of the time, I didn't think, or realize that there is more to it in the computer world.
But I think I understand what your saying; you would end up with a pick head on a brown body or vice versa. Or maybe green people? I find this so intersting and now makes me want to back to school and learn how the "magic works

Wow I did not no about any of this Either thanks for telling us Lady & Carla it would be cool to have other skin tones but I understand that it is not easy & as Mocha said if its not broke dont fix it

I must admit that I thought it would be easier than Carla has explained (thanks)...it would be fun with more diverse ppl...but i'm all for easy programming and a faster release date (for future games)



that makes alot of sense







and i agree with mocha on taking a course in computer gaming... or i might just "cheat" and ask a new student to explain it to me!

I expect you didn't mean this quite the way it's said, but to clarify, it's not a matter of it being easier to program, but that it would be a massive change to the game to include more diversity.

Every color/nationality/race/whatever would need to be drawn with its own grid. The code in the program will need to be sure it's keeping each head and body from the same grid.

Just adding ONE other race, such as black, would require a grid, added code to handle that second grid, calculations on how to determine which grid to start with (if you start with 7 villagers, will people get mad if the original 7 aren't a good mix of races?). And, as already pointed out, there is the issue of the babies. Not only do you have to try to figure out which child would result, but the babies themselves would need to be drawn to look more like the resulting child. Right now, there is ONE baby. Add in a black race, now you need two. If you add in a mixed race, now you have three. Plus, that mixed race will need another grid. And code to handle that grid (ensuring that when a white and black villager breed, they get either a white, black or mixed baby). And then would people be unhappy if the number of black, white or mixed babies they get aren't evenly distributed?

Now let's add in an Asian grid. Add another baby. Add another mixed race of white an asian. How about black and asian? What about mixed and asian? What about mixed with mixed?

Every combination would not only require its own grid, but it would require code to ensure each villager uses the right grid, determine the genetics, figure out mixed races, and then mixed races with mixed races... and in the end, people will still be unhappy because it won't/can't reflect true life.

And which races/cultures/nationalities do they add and which do they not add? What if they add black, white, hispanic, and asian, but not Indian (both kinds)? What about German? There are specific characteristics for them, as well (I'm part German). Or features commonly associated with Jewish people?

And then would that create racial/cultural/nationality stereotypes? You betcha. Do all Asian people have the stereotypical slanted eyes? Not really. Should all the black villagers have afro hair? I think not. But then how did the black villagers get the products to straighten their hair?

It's a huge tangle of worms, and the best solution all around is to simply not go there. Don't go there for the programming/coding aspects. And don't go there because once you cross that line, you cannot possibly create enough diversity to avoid stereotypes, many of which are not accurate and are actually quite offensive. It's Pandora's Box.

And on top of all that, you have to write the code for each version: PC, Mac, etc. which multiplies the work exponentially.


You don't need a course in computer gaming. You need a course in computer programming. It's not that you need to learn an actual programming language, but that you'd need to learn how code is written, flow charts, decision branches, loops, etc. It's the logic of the flowchart of the code that would need to be required. This is not unique to games, but is the basics of ALL software programs, including games.

For those who may indeed be interested in getting into programming, by all means pursue obtaining a Bachelor's degree in either Computer Science or Information Systems. Do keep in mind that a bunch of the old programming/analyst jobs are now overseas (from U.S. anyway) so the pay and demand is not as high as it used to be. However, if you are truly talented, there are jobs to be found.

I would suggest anyone with very high math skills, analytical thinking, an engineering aptitude who absolutely loves puzzles, go for it. It's actually FUN! All code is a puzzle as you have a goal to meet and need to figure out what commands in the coding language you can put together to create your goal. Then you test it. Work out the bugs. Test it again. Bang your head against the wall. Figure out the answer in your sleep (literally). And then celebrate your brilliance when you find success with something that just could not be done before. One of my favorite parts of programming was using commands in a manner they were never intended to create things that had escaped others. I used to give presentations on coding. I loved coding! There was never anything that couldn't be done. You just had to think outside the box.

Okay, enough of that. As you can see, I find programming quite enjoyable and would recommend it to others even though it's not for everyone. You'll know if you have a knack for it or not (being good in math: algebra, calculus, trig, etc.). If you loved working those problems, then you'll love programming, as well.

But when it comes to making what seems to be a small change, such as adding diversity, from a programming aspect, it's not a small change at all.

The one thing that I very much love about the way LDW packages their games is that you can make your own mods to the game. So if you do want a different colored skin, you can create it yourself. I've changed totems, faces, clothes, even parts of the main game board. That way I get to personalize it to whatever I personally like. I think encouraging mods would be a good idea since that would add variety to the game. If there were enough people interested in creating mods, a special area for downloading the mods could be made available. Since the mods are only png files, there's little chance of it blowing the game (although, I did create headless elders by accident once when I made a typo in a filename! LOL!). LDW would have to check with their lawyers to ensure that they safeguard themselves from responsibility of mods from other people. And they'd have to create a preview and download page for them, not to mention maintaining the page, but it could be done. But what we're doing in threads does this same function so where's the need?

Sorry for rattling. I get a bit carried away when thinking of programming and all.

Well, I did my best and I'm not sure if this matches anyone's skin color but is definitely a bit different. It changes all of the villagers skin colors. Here's a pic of some villagers with this mod:


SIDE-EFFECTS OF THIS MOD:
Well, since I had to change the color, clothes and things might be a tad different.
Major ones:
Blondes are now Brunettes
Yellow parts of clothes are now brown.

But other than that, if you would like to download it, click here.

Enjoy.

Jazzo your a doll! If I wasn't happily married and you were waaay older I would kiss you! Now these folks look like islanders (sorry Carla and Matt, still love you) Where do I send the cookies?

well, you can send virtual cookies to jazzo@jazzothegreat.com

Enjoy (BTW, I just got the download working)

Thanks Jazzo, I'm working on it now and will let you know how it turns out.
Mocha

Them are great can you do one that is a lil darker if so let me know thatnks Jazzo I like

i meant that i would like for it to be "diverse" but easy programming meaning if that's what they gotta do to have a game right now then i'm happy.

and i agree with the part where you were saying which groups to add...

but thanks for the computer programming explanation!

Jazzo: just got the mod downloaded and having a great time. Just also figured out to how to take pictures (new laptop, different funtion) so I will post pictures soon. Thanks for helping me make this truly "my village"
Mocha

When I said diverse, I meant in both skin colours, cultures, foods, maybe music, etc. You and I have spoken, so I know that you will understand that as a Bi-racial woman, when I say race, I human race and the various hues therefore. Since I raised this question, not only has Jazzo made a mod of africn american villagers, but someone send me one for Native Americans thatI am also going to try.

Here is my new villagers

There cannot be different color skins as it is too complicated for the computer to come up with a blend. Errors would occur like a black face on a white body. Also light skins give more variety for hair color. At least that is the explanation I read awhile back.

Actually, I have a Mod that was made by a VV forumer, and it has Native Indian's, very kewl, I saw one a bit back that had African American's, they looked very good, I'm sure a lot of work went into making these Mod's... Thank You to all who spend the time and their talent's, so we can mix up the game's a little. It's like playing a whole new dimension of the game.

The mods do indeed add a new dimension to the games; it's like playing a whole new game. The African Amercian tribe mod was made by Jazzo. And what i love about it is that there are villagere who are very, dark, dark, mocha (like me) and still fair skin. Jazzo covered the bases and I am enjoying it much. If you have pictures of your Native American tribe, I would love to see them.

Ahhhh Mocha! Those are great! I don't know how to post my shot's , Ive tried my heart out! followed Lady's direction's, went online, I just can't seem to make head's or tail's of it, like I said before... "I am The Puter Tard!" your villager's look good! I couldnt get that mod to work for me, probley something i did i'm sure, but the native american mod is up and running great, I added the Plants to my village too... It's cozy in there! LOL

Kitten;
My husband just brought me a new laptop and I was having the same problems you were having. So I called the company and they walked me through each of the steps. In my case, to print a picture of my game I have to hit the keys "fn" and "prt sc" at the same time and then go to print, open edit and then hit paste, and there is the picture. That is what you might have to do with yours. Nor could I download the Jazzo's mod, so the company helped me with that as well. Give it a try. It can't hunt.

OH Mocha! If you only knew how OLD this Puter is, so sad, it's been built. and Re-built! LOL! My Boyfriend get's the super-Puter, he's the puter god in our house since my Son's moved out...I wouldn't even know who to call? It has part's from about 10 computer's! Boyfriend say's he's going to help me get pic's but he work's out on the boat's , gone alot and when he get's home I don't wanna _bug_ him, so tired, but he keep's promising... we shall see. Thank's for the info though, Your Hubby must be a real Sweetie, Puter's don't come cheap, Your worth it! I'm sure it help's you stay in touch w/ him so far away... didn't have anything like that when I was an Army Wife... I just followed him to all his bases, last one was in Germany, He Was a Cobra Helicopter Pilot... Sad to say, He died on winter maneuvers, our youngest son was just 9 month's old, and in a foreign land, I was so lost, You stay positive Girl! This is gonna be over soon, well have our Boy's back where they belong!

First, I am sorry for the lost of your first husbnd. My dad also died of war injuries when I was a baby. And it is true, they didn't have any of the tech stuff we have today. I remember my first computer; may it Ret In Peace. I couldn't do 1/3 of the things I can now. Keep your eyes open, you just might find a pretty good used one. And my hubby has promised to return to me safey. And he has never broken a promise to me

If it is still not clear (wasn't clear to me):

Let's say that there is only 6 heads, 6 bodies in VV.[lets say 15KB] (36 possibilties)

Now let's say you want to add black people. 12 heads and 12 bodies. [30KB](72 possibilties)

Hey! we wasted 30KB of space for just 72 possibilites!! If we don't add black ppl and add 6 white heads/bodies

12 heads and 12 bodies [30KB] (144 possibilities)

Now if we still go with Path 1, we need another 6 heads and 6 bodies if cross breeded.(18 heads/18 bodies] 45 KB [108 possibilties]

18 heads and 18 bodies white = 324 possibilities and 45 KB

So you get my point? Same size, but if we make half another skin tone it will make the possibilties over 50% less! Not to menction how much programming needs to be done.

I would like something like that in the game, I do think it's something that should be added somewhere down the line but we're not going to die without it for now

It would definitely make things more interesting.

It would be nice to see the occasional mutant/ rare child be african american or another etnicity, but the problem is that all the villagers did come from the same island. Maybe the tiki people in VV5 could be different races, and we could mate with them.

Very cool mods, Jazzo.

I don't have Virtual Villagers, I have Virtual Family, but I just asked the same question in the Virutal Family forum (new here) and someone directed me here. I, too, would like a diverse group of people in my adoptee pool. Not just white, not just black, but all kinds of realistic skin colors: Asian, Native American, Eastern Indian, African, European, etc... I'd actually been hoping for an African American skinned proposal so I could have an interracial couple, but when I kept getting only white proposals, I started to wonder if they didn't exist.

Does the developer ever make fixes/downloadable additions/updates? I would love a diversity update, because I find it really unfair to only have white characters in the game.

What it really comes down to is this: Would you rather have an update to add skin colors, or would you rather have new games keep coming out?
Reminder of the post explaining the how massive an update/change this would be: Click here
*disappears back into her writing corner*

As a Native person and a big fan of The Blue Lagoon books, as I am playing these games I get a little uneasy with the cognitive dissonance too. Partly because the illustrations as well as the actual environments in the game look like a mixture of South Sea Islands and South American Indian. I find myself doing the same trick in my mind that Japanese readers do when manga illustrations of Japanese characters show them as blonde. I "know" the villagers are brown in "reality". I would love to actually, not just in my mind, see brown-skinned people on these islands. I honestly think I would prefer for them to take time out to update this, and then create new games. Of course not everyone will agree, I know.

As has already been pointed out numerous times, there are several mods which can be used to change the looks of the characters (and objects) in your game(s). There are also several highly skilled modders in our community who delight in filling specific mod requests.

Also, as has repeatedly been pointed out elsewhere, it would require massive programming to build diversity into the games. While it is possible, it would drive the cost of the games far beyond what the price point they have now. It would also greatly prolong development time.

In other words, it is possible, but not necessarily practical for the format of these games.

I'm new to the forums but this topic interests me. I have no idea though if this thread is dead. I can't find a date for the most recent post or is it really 10 years old?

It seems to be the very first VV game I played, maybe it was the Lost Children? Anyway, when the villagers mated the young came out as a great combination of the two parents. No like the VVO2 Android version I've been playing. All the characters are very boringly the same.

I don't understand why you couldn't put in other islanders in all of these games of different nationalities. Think of the children who like playing these games and they NEVER see a representation of their own heritage. This is 2019, it's time you guys got up to speed here.

Thanks for reading.

i got so excited when i got a blonde baby.

I started playing Virtual Town because there is the opportunity to choose characters of color (even though they all have afros but I'm assuming that's because there are no developers of color). Anyway, it is nice to see different characters but the game has become repetitive and boring. I've completed all of the collections, quests, buildings, etc. What's next for the game?

They've been apperently working on an update for Virtual Town for long while now. We don't know when it will be released.

As for people of color, Virtual Families 3 is going to have POC with different hairstyles.

I have vf3 in beta and there are more skins tones and stuff but still with certain ones (like rainbow girls) they still have a certain "look" but.. still beta. Not sure what if anything will change